Agree with other posters that the record is impressive, but this "analogy" is dumb.
Ran 15:30 for 5k. Wanna know how impressive that is? Look at how tired this guy is running a 4 minute mile. Imagine taking a 90 second break and repeating that 2 more times!
Agree, the point in ultras is simply to avoid stopping or changing speeds. With practice (and repeated shaming by the more experienced runners!) one is forced to mimic their efforts.
well,, wrote:
JimbobJ wrote:
I always wondered if Billy Bland's BGR record would be challenged by a world class mountain runner from outside the UK because not that many of Kilian's calibre had taken a crack at it until the man himself basically rocked up, took a few days to recce the route and annihilated the time.
To Bland´s defence, one should remember that he was working full time as a construction worker, running in primitive Walsh shoes, no fancy nutrition and no Salomon company behind his back.
Absolutely, just saying Kilian's new record is potentially more realistic in terms of pushing the boundary with a full time pro.
Billy's kit and nutrition weren't that primitive, a lot of fell runners still run in Walshes.
Both times are incredible especially when you put them up against the times teams of people are able to run and not come close to in the Billy Bland Relay challenge.
rojo wrote:
We asked Hoka pros Michael Wardian and Sabrina Little to chime in on the debate. Little agrees with the spreadsheet above. Abe's 100k record is really good. She also think's Ellie Greenwood's Western States record is super.
For the men, she's impressed by Yiannis Kouros 24 hour record.
As for Wardian, he focused on the men's records and cited Jim's Walmsley's 50 miler and Western States records as impressive plus Pete Kostelnick's run across the US in 42 days>
But if you read the article below, they also share their best races and best ultra runners in history.
https://www.letsrun.com/news/2019/05/hoka-pros-michael-wardian-and-sabrina-little-tell-us-what-they-view-as-the-best-ultra-races-runners-and-records-in-history/
If we're honest about what he's done in his career, Mike Wardian has to be in discussion as one of the most versatile, consistent runners, ever..
His ability to recover and compete is unlike anything we've seen, unless I am missing a key piece of history..who else has done what he's done in a competitive fashion? At 45, he's not a threat in a world major, but tell me who else is doing what he's still doing. It's incredible.
Just this year alone, and we're only halfway through May, he ran the HURT 100, the 10 day marathon challenge, the 630 FKT on the Israel trail, and then followed it up within a few weeks running sub 2:35 marathons across the country, and somewhere in the low 50s Cherry Blossom 10 miler. Wtf??
I am still awaiting a blood result to find he is some genetic mutation that allows for overnight recovery lol. What baffles me the most, he speaks openly about how he doesn't sleep well.
I'm suprised no one has talked about the marathon monks.
Somewhere in the mountains around Kyoto live the marathon monks. Legend has it that the monks of Mount Hiei run 1,000 marathons in 1,000 days in their quest to reach enlightenment. Those who succeed become revered, as human Buddhas or living saints. It is rare that a monk embarks on the 1,000-day challenge, or kaihogyo, and even rarer that one completes it. In the last 130 years, only 46 men have managed it.
There are two kaihōgyō practices; 100 days (hyaku-nichi kaihōgyō) and 1,000 days (sennichi kaihōgyō).[1] The ultimate achievement is the completion of the 1,000-day challenge, which would rank among the most demanding physical and mental challenges in the world. Only 46 men have completed the 1,000-day challenge since 1885.[4] Of these, three people have completed the circuit twice, most recently Yūsai Sakai (酒井雄哉, (1926–2013)), who first went from 1973 to 1980 and then, after a half year pause, went again, finishing his second round in 1987 at age 60.
The kaihōgyō takes seven years to complete, as the monks must undergo other Buddhist training in meditation and calligraphy, and perform general duties within the temple. They are required to spend 12 years total on Mount Hiei and includes vows of lifelong celibacy and sobriety in the spirit of renunciation.
The training is divided into 100-day sections as follows:
Year 1
30 (40) km per day for 100 days.
Year 2
30 (40) km per day for 100 days.
Year 3
30 (40) km per day for 100 days.
Year 4
30 (40) km per day for 200 days.
Year 5
30 (40) km per day for 200 days.
Year 6
60 km per day for 100 days.
Year 7
84 km per day for 100 days, followed by 30 (40) km per day for 100 days.
(The numbers in parentheses indicate the distance of the Imuro Valley course, which is longer.)
OH AND BY THE WAY, if you embark on the journey and fail to cover the distance in the given day. So say in year seven you miss one day of 50 miles for those 100 days. You have to disembowel yourself and die in disgrace.
The Marathon Monks
The Tendai monks believe that enlightenment can be achieved during your current life, but only through extreme self–denial.
For the Tendai, the ultimate act of self–denial — and the route to enlightenment — is a physical challenge known as the Kaihogyo. Because of this challenge, the Tendai are often called the “Marathon Monks.”
But the Kaihogyo is much more than a marathon.
The Kaihogyo
The Kaihogyo is a 1,000 day challenge that takes place over seven years.
If a monk chooses to undertake this challenge, this is what awaits him…
During Year 1, the monk must run 30 km per day (about 18 miles) for 100 straight days.
During Year 2, the monk must again run 30 km per day for 100 straight days.
During Year 3, the monk must once more run 30 km per day for 100 straight days.
During Year 4, the monk must run 30 km per day. This time for 200 straight days.
During Year 5, the monk must again run 30 km per day for 200 straight days. After completing the fifth year of running, the monk must go 9 consecutive days without food, water, or rest. Two monks stand beside him at all times to ensure that he does not fall asleep.
During Year 6, the monk must run 60 km (about 37 miles) per day for 100 straight days.
During Year 7, the monk must run 84 km (about 52 miles) per day for 100 straight days. (52 miles per day!) And then, he must run 30 km per day for the final 100 days.
The sheer volume of running is incredible, of course, but there is one final challenge that makes The Kaihogyo unlike any other feat…
Day 101
During the first 100 days of running, the monk is allowed to withdraw from the Kaihogyo.
However, from Day 101 onwards, there is no withdrawal. The monk must either complete the Kaihogyo … or take his own life.
Because of this, the monks carry a length of rope and a short sword at all times on their journey.
In the last 400+ years, only 46 men have completed the challenge. Many others can be found by their unmarked graves on the hills of Mount Hiei.
JimbobJ wrote:
well,, wrote:
To Bland´s defence, one should remember that he was working full time as a construction worker, running in primitive Walsh shoes, no fancy nutrition and no Salomon company behind his back.
Absolutely, just saying Kilian's new record is potentially more realistic in terms of pushing the boundary with a full time pro.
Billy's kit and nutrition weren't that primitive, a lot of fell runners still run in Walshes.
Both times are incredible especially when you put them up against the times teams of people are able to run and not come close to in the Billy Bland Relay challenge.
I bought a pair of Walsh elite trainers just for fun (they are very cheap) last year. They are incredibly uncomfortable. I can´t imagine doing something like the BG round in them.
The Marathon Monks are well known. The is a nice book about them.
They don't race and it's not a certified course. So it basically doesn't count in our believe system :-)
But at the end they do the same thing as we do. Run.
And that is all what matters.
Still gonna put a word in for full time accounts clerk with 3 kids in an era where first prize could be as exciting as a bread board, Cavin Woodward
https://arrs.run/ARRS-root%20dir/AR_Great100Miles.htm
Was his 50 mile, 100km, 150km or 100 mile record in the same race most impressive, first man under 5hours for 50, second under 12 hours for 100.
Even better, his school PE Teacher had written on his report "Cavin will never be an athlete".
That year he also won a couple of notable races:
Two Bridges (36 miles 158 yatds) 3:26.45
28 Sept London to Brighton (84.758km) 5.12.07
Isle of Wight Marathon 2:23:31, notably as a race he won in 1973 and 1993
Also set the 30 mile record that year.
Yep, Cavin Woodward was one of the really great runners.
It's kind of funny when people talk about bringing speed to ultras these days. When runners where actually a lot faster in the 70ies and 80ies.
Here we go. What do you think?
PS. The Marathon monks are crazy. So crazy I wasn't sure it was real - but it is.
That is a great FKT for a very long run/hike. But I don't think the AT belongs in a discussion of Ultras. (In not even sure Jim W's R2R2R FKT belongs in a discussion of "races".)
No, you cannot hold a race on the AT. Against the regs for NPS, USFS, etc. And I hope nobody ever tries.
S. Canaday wrote:
After that I'm lost. Courses do change slightly from year to year and of course weather is a big factor. In mountain-trail running I think some of the best records are actually "sub-ultra" in distance. (i.e. Carpenters untouchable 3:16 at Pikes or Jono Wyatts 56-min on Mt. WA etc.).
I hear that Killian is signed up for Pikes Peak this year. I assume he'll be gunning for Matt's record since there isn't really another reason for him to run it. A lot of locals say the trail was in much better shape back in Matt's day and that alone could keep anybody from besting him. Personally, I'm just hoping to clear the treeline going up before killian passes me coming down!
It will be Killian's second time at Pikes (he won in 3:40 before).....the reason for him to run it again of course is because it is part of the Golden Trail Series this year. Nobody is touching a 3:16 at Pikes anymore IMO. We'll be lucky to have a few guys sneak under 3:30 (if any do) and I highly doubt anyone will crack 3:20. Pikes is not technical enough for Killian...he called the Barr Trail a "flat road." His teammates Remi and Stian are better flat-out climbers IMO.
Smb wrote:
S. Canaday wrote:
After that I'm lost. Courses do change slightly from year to year and of course weather is a big factor. In mountain-trail running I think some of the best records are actually "sub-ultra" in distance. (i.e. Carpenters untouchable 3:16 at Pikes or Jono Wyatts 56-min on Mt. WA etc.).
I hear that Killian is signed up for Pikes Peak this year. I assume he'll be gunning for Matt's record since there isn't really another reason for him to run it. A lot of locals say the trail was in much better shape back in Matt's day and that alone could keep anybody from besting him. Personally, I'm just hoping to clear the treeline going up before killian passes me coming down!
.Trump2020OP-the real one........ wrote:
Scott Jurek
Won the Western States Endurance Run seven consecutive times (1999–2005), and held the record time (15:36:27 in 2004) until 2010
T.M.A.D.H.A.S.F.N.E.
Jurek can definitely be in the discussion for lifetime achievements, but I'm not sure any of his single best efforts could make this top 7 list.
Just a comment about this article.
Yes, Yiannis Kouros record over 24 hours is incredible. I was fortunate enough to be in the 24 hour road WR attempt half a year later in Basel, Switzerland were Kouros ran 290k. Something like 7:15 for the first 100k, 7:45 for the second and another 8 hours for the last 90k. 20 hours in, Yiannis looked like he was on a quick morning jog through the park, if you were not aware of what he was doing.
BUT, some others and I think, that his 48 hour record is even a lot stronger. 473.495 k over 2 days (294.2mi) That are 147 miles per day which is a quit respectable result in any 24 hour race. Kouros ability to run straight for 2 to 3 days was absolutely incredible. Australian Martin Fryer his the second best runner over 48 hours and his result is 40k lower with 433.686 k. Again Kouros has 8 out of the top 10 World best results. His 48 hour record might be safe for another 50 years.
Ultramarkus wrote:
Just a comment about this article.
Yes, Yiannis Kouros record over 24 hours is incredible. I was fortunate enough to be in the 24 hour road WR attempt half a year later in Basel, Switzerland were Kouros ran 290k. Something like 7:15 for the first 100k, 7:45 for the second and another 8 hours for the last 90k. 20 hours in, Yiannis looked like he was on a quick morning jog through the park, if you were not aware of what he was doing.
BUT, some others and I think, that his 48 hour record is even a lot stronger. 473.495 k over 2 days (294.2mi) That are 147 miles per day which is a quit respectable result in any 24 hour race. Kouros ability to run straight for 2 to 3 days was absolutely incredible. Australian Martin Fryer his the second best runner over 48 hours and his result is 40k lower with 433.686 k. Again Kouros has 8 out of the top 10 World best results. His 48 hour record might be safe for another 50 years.
Great post.
That's why I'm going to try to reach out to him.
But even if he agrees and says the 48 hour record is better, I'm not sure it should be the GOAT. If Kipgchoge runs some sick half marathon WR, would we still say that's the GOAT. The half marathon just doesn't have the same prestige. Maybe another analogy would be Komen's 3000 WR. It might be the hardest to break but it's not a standard event.
How often do people even attempt a 48 hour record?
So are we on to something here with the half-marathon/marathon analogy?
Yes, the 24 hour race is one of the two standard ultra running events on roads.
Kouros 48 hour WR is on a lot less competed distance but that does not take away anything from the performance.
It's should not be confused with 50 mile and 100 mile world bests which very rarely get ran on roads or track.
It's ridiculous this obsession of picking goats in ultrarunning and especially ridiculous is picking the 24hr time.
It's an amazing time - no doubt. But how many people even try this?
It's like picking who is the best in the world in tossing dwarfs -
kip142 wrote:
It's ridiculous this obsession of picking goats in ultrarunning and especially ridiculous is picking the 24hr time.
It's an amazing time - no doubt. But how many people even try this?
It's like picking who is the best in the world in tossing dwarfs -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf-tossing
1: Nobody forces you to read this thread.
2: Why do you feel so threatened by ultra running? I don´t bother to comment on really marginal sports, because I know that
nobody cares about them. The fact that so many people feel the need to bash ultra running on LRC must mean that they
realize that ultras are gaining in popularity and more and more people turn their attention to ultras instead of races
where a bunch of anonymous Africans run laps around a track.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BjUJBirha3J/