London: this guy won the 50-54 age group

Ron's hill wrote:

What evidence has anyone on the thread shown that this guy is doping? If they have I've missed the post. Standard procedure here when a really good age group performance turns up is to think first that the runner must have cut the course based on an absence of other racing performances consistent with the particular really good one. That doesn't work here so people go to Plan B which is to accuse the runner of doping. Thank heaven apologists abound.

People are accusing him based on his physique, not just his times. Lots of meatheads his age use T and other anti-aging stuff

I think this guy is using HGH or some sort of low T therapy. But I think he is so jacked up that the net benefit on his running is zero. In fact, all the additional weight on his upper body may be weighing him down enough to slow his times down compared to what he could run without all the extra muscle mass. Other than the massive upper body muscles, this guy actually does have a pretty light frame and has a solid history of running accomplishments. 2:36 is crazy fast for a 50+ runner, but there are probably about two dozen 50+ runner who can go sub 2:40 and a handful who can break 2:30. World records for 50+ are in the low 2:20s.

I’m not a jealous American but I am a former sub 2:40 marathoner who has been battling a bad knee for the last two years. I’m in the hard work camp for this guy but his progression from 1 minute at 10minute pace in January to 2:36 marathoner 4 1/2 months later is eye brow raising. Maybe he’s exaggerating how bad his knee really was but that much improvement over that short of a period of time for someone his age is phenomenal.

Hardloper wrote:

Ron's hill wrote:

What evidence has anyone on the thread shown that this guy is doping? If they have I've missed the post. Standard procedure here when a really good age group performance turns up is to think first that the runner must have cut the course based on an absence of other racing performances consistent with the particular really good one. That doesn't work here so people go to Plan B which is to accuse the runner of doping. Thank heaven apologists abound.

People are accusing him based on his physique, not just his times. Lots of meatheads his age use T and other anti-aging stuff

Exactly. They're looking at a picture and deciding that because he ran fast he's one of those meatheads using something he's not supposed to use. A photo that doesn't look like you think it should is not evidence.

The guy ran 2:31 at age 50, so running 5 mins slower on 4.5 months of hard training is not at all suspicious. Actually it matches a normal age decline for a guy his age.

youknowsit wrote:

+2

Older bro has a 2:12 'thon

Older bro is within 3 minutes of Rupp

Facts or Fiction wrote:

So. He’s a firefighter. Firefighters in the UK are routinely drug tested. As standard. Tests are random and unannounced.

Genetics, his son is a national level 800m runner.

Got to love the; jealous; hate on the s(h)ite that is Letsrun.

I doubt Firefighters are tested for PEDs. More likely recreational drugs.

Nobody is disputing that he's probably very genetically gifted. He's also most likely doping. His son probably is too.

No jealousy or hate. If he want's to do this to win his age group, then fine. It's kind of a silly thing to do, but the odds of getting popped are minimal. He'll just ever know what he could have done on his own.

Brits are so delusional when it comes to things like this. Just accept that there's a high probability that he's using PEDs and move on.

You could well be right about this. I can't prove you wrong and you are entitled to your opinion. But your opinion on this is all you have and it's grossly unfair to accuse someone, actually two someones in this case, of cheating based on nothing but your opinion. There are loads of people in the sport who, in my opinion, are cheating, but I would not say who they are publicly based on nothing more than my opinion.

oldlegs wrote:

The guy ran 2:31 at age 50, so running 5 mins slower on 4.5 months of hard training is not at all suspicious. Actually it matches a normal age decline for a guy his age.

I agree the time progressions are logical. But he went from,in his words, thinking his career was over and running 10 minute pace to a 2:36 marathon in 4.5 months. Plausible based on his racing history but still a remarkable recovery for anyone much less a 50+ year old. I’m not suggesting or implying he was sticking a needle in his ass/arse every day to get there, it’s just an impressive progression. Again, he’s probably exaggerating the severity of his “cracked knee” but, based on the battle I’ve waged as a 2:30s marathoner trying to recover from a bum knee, his rapid improvement is phenomenal. And cracked knee is probably British for something less severe than the damage I have.

He's on PEDs. I would bet $100K on that statement.

I'm fairly certain the "anti-aging products" are on the WADA list.

oh come on, you can be sure he has been heavily scrutinized and tested all his life, it's an obvious gene mutation, like LMNA R482W or myostatin muscle hypertrophy that you see in some Olympians

this is why he is an exception to the rule, every superior athlete has some kind of genetic benefit, some are just way more subtle than others, some hide in the blood, some are way more visible in the muscles

there are kids and even babies with muscle hypertrophy, you think they are doping too?

Old Skool wrote:

I agree the time progressions are logical. But he went from,in his words, thinking his career was over and running 10 minute pace to a 2:36 marathon in 4.5 months. Plausible based on his racing history but still a remarkable recovery for anyone much less a 50+ year old. I’m not suggesting or implying he was sticking a needle in his ass/arse every day to get there, it’s just an impressive progression. Again, he’s probably exaggerating the severity of his “cracked knee” but, based on the battle I’ve waged as a 2:30s marathoner trying to recover from a bum knee, his rapid improvement is phenomenal. And cracked knee is probably British for something less severe than the damage I have.

Getting into shape in this amount of time seems reasonable to me, at least in my 30s. I've stress fractured my foot, had to take a couple months completely off, and come back to race a marathon in a PR (a few min slower than this guy) on 7 weeks of normal marathon mileage by the time I built back up to what I usually train at.

Look him up on Power of 10 (Graham Green, Warrington AC). The guy has a long history going back to running 1.58 for 800m and 3.47 for 1500m in the 1970s-90s. He has run under 16mins for 5k several times and in 2015 he ran 71.37 for the half marathon and 2.31.56 for the full marathon. His family all have pedigree at running. No story here.

genetic exceptions wrote:

oh come on, you can be sure he has been heavily scrutinized and tested all his life, it's an obvious gene mutation, like LMNA R482W or myostatin muscle hypertrophy that you see in some Olympians

this is why he is an exception to the rule, every superior athlete has some kind of genetic benefit, some are just way more subtle than others, some hide in the blood, some are way more visible in the muscles

there are kids and even babies with muscle hypertrophy, you think they are doping too?

At least you haven't raised the possibility of aliens having abducting his mother and impregnating her with ET genes.. have you?

Someone with extraneous muscle fibre is not certainly not optimized for marathon running, and will stand no chance against those that do have the right natural genetics that train as hard as him. The margins of performance at the top level is fractions of 1% and carrying useless upper and lower body muscles is a very significant disadvantage.

Ovaries wrote:

Testes wrote:

UKAD testing = LOL

On the contrary I've heard UKAD = tough testing! Look at how often Mo, Muir, Langsford, etc. are tested. I've heard UKAD is really good at target testing & ambush testing - athletes there can't pull a fast one on Brit testing protocol like they can over here in the States.

I'm not making any inference about this case and I presume he's clean

However you gave got to be joking about UKAD?

Target testing and ambush lol!

Their raison d'etre seems to be to protect high profile athletes like Farah and the name of British Athletics as a whole.

Don't forget the famous email from the former chief.

HRE wrote:

You could well be right about this. I can't prove you wrong and you are entitled to your opinion. But your opinion on this is all you have and it's grossly unfair to accuse someone, actually two someones in this case, of cheating based on nothing but your opinion. There are loads of people in the sport who, in my opinion, are cheating, but I would not say who they are publicly based on nothing more than my opinion.

Fair enough. The guy's not a pro athlete so he doesn't deserve this scrutiny. I'd delete my post if I could and keep my opinion to myself.

Old Skool wrote:

I’m not a jealous American but I am a former sub 2:40 marathoner who has been battling a bad knee for the last two years. I’m in the hard work camp for this guy but his progression from 1 minute at 10minute pace in January to 2:36 marathoner 4 1/2 months later is eye brow raising. Maybe he’s exaggerating how bad his knee really was but that much improvement over that short of a period of time for someone his age is phenomenal.

He was just getting back to form he had previously had. A fractured kneecap will stop you in your tracks but once it heals you can ramp back up fairly quickly.