Lauren Fleshman's great letter to Lance

Uncivil Engineer wrote:

Randy Oldman wrote:

Plus she was 22 and barely known.

No, she was 26 in 1997, but she was still barely known.

Let's compromise.

Paul Radcliffe

Born: 17 December 1973

Randy Oldman wrote:

Let's compromise.

Paula Radcliffe

Born: 17 December 1973

Yeah, now I've gone full retard too. I posted the above crap in the wrong thread and did the math wrong.

Your point remains valid -- she was a relative unknown at the time Slaney went down.

Uncivil Engineer wrote:

Uncle Pervy unlogged wrote:

Love her, but the PR offensive these past months while she planned pregnancy and post Nike life has been a bit over the top. (blog, FB, Tweet the same message, multiple times...).

May I ask you why you follow her in three different online venues, yet complain that she posts the same content in each?

Would it be unreasonable to suggest that you maybe follow her only on Facebook, or only on Twitter, or only via her blog? Or are you compelled by some bizarre mandate to track her by every Internet means possible?

Because I assumed that, like mostnof the other people I follow, there would be different info on Twitter vs. Facebook.

Just havent bothered to take my name off website mailing list.

Uncle Pervy unlogged wrote:

Because I assumed that, like mostnof the other people I follow, there would be different info on Twitter vs. Facebook.

Just havent bothered to take my name off website mailing list.

Then you know more creative people than I do. The few I follow in more than one place usually put the same shit everywhere.

Here is an email Lauren sent regarding my comment on her blog.

I copied and pasted.

I just wanted to write you a note to clear something up but my website comment structure only allows it to go so many levels deep, hence the email. I want to be super clear that I am not writing to attack you. I want to continue the conversation. If I get passionate about something, it is not a personal attack.

Your last comment is a lot like how I feel. It's why I stayed quiet about it for so long but why this week I grew completely enraged.

This guy is getting so much publicity for being a scumbag acting like it has any effect on their lives when it doesn't. This is what you were saying too.

The general public know nothing about the way sports work, and that his manipulation of the public could actually change his outcome because minor sports governing bodies are interested in boosting the exposure of their sports. I was able to let it go until I realized the full extent of what he was angling for, and what it would mean if he got it. Nobody else was writing about that side of things.

Meanwhile, my husband and I work in the only industries that really will be affected, and I have an understanding of what it would mean to let a guy like that start competing in triathlons bc he had the power to sway public opinion with a media stunt.

The reason I wrote this blog was because I felt that a perspective was missing in this conversation: the perspective of minor sports athletes who will be affected if he joins our ranks. Most people don't even know pro running is a job, much less a professional career with standards most participants take seriously. I wanted to present that side of it to make the conversation less about "should his good deeds with livestrong give him a pass?" and other ridiculous nonsense. Imagine if a doctor lost his license for egregious malpractice, but he had also started a charity for kids cancer? I have a feeling doctors would be pissed if the criminal went on Oprah to try to use public appeal from his charity to get his medical license back. That kind of stunt wouldn't work in medicine anyway because the medical profession would never stand for it. They are two separate issues.

I want it to go away too. And the circus is disgusting. Just realize that I am a real person and it is hurtful to me to hear you imply that I'm basically a publicity whore, when in fact this issue is important to me. I believe in free speech, am respectful of different opinions, and enjoy some good respectful banter, but there is no reason to attack me or drag me down personally.

To be a pro athlete or a writer requires interaction and fostering an audience. That is not a crime. It is a necessity. It's like music or art or any other business where you are self employed. There are many cheap, sleazy ways to do this that I find disgusting. I choose to do it by sharing opinions and experiences, generating conversation, and other things that hopefully get people engaging in the sport more often than once every four years. Doing this is something I enjoy. Im a Stanford dork with a masters in education...I enjoy teaching people who are interested. And if that online presence makes me valuable to a sponsor, that helps me survive the down years of injury and pregnancy that come with the job. If I can't do this on my own blog, a blog I pay for and don't even advertise on, than wow.

I suppose I could have written the blog in the heat of the moment and then said "oh man, publishing this now might look opportunistic since its on everyone's minds, and it will get a lot of readers. Maybe I should just hold off on it for a few weeks to make sure nobody reads it." That would be stupid. It was on my mind at an opportune time because it was on everyone's mind.

I don't know if you are a runner or what, but if you are, I'd really like to know more about this opinion that athletes like me shouldn't have publicity. I've heard it a couple times before, and I'm genuinely curious to know what it's about. Is it a misconception that we are getting rich undeservedly? Is it that people shouldn't have a public persona unless they are a world record holder or Olympic Champion? What is it exactly?

Anyway, thanks for posting.

Sincerely,

yes sir... wrote:

I copied and pasted.

Thanks for clearing that up. Had you not included this detail, I would have assumed you'd taken the long route and re-typed the whole damn thing.

Which of the (currently) 168 comments to her entry was she responding to?

These racist posts against Lauren proves the US is the most racist nation ever.

The Fleshman’s may have been Jewish at some point, but if so, it was prior to 1717 when they took the boat from Germany to America as indentured servants to the English Governor of Virginia. True story. But thanks for all the mozel tovs anyway! I’ve considered converting; the Maccabiah Games, AKA Jewish Olympics, are an Olympics I just might be able to qualify for and medal in.

I'm not a Jew but I went to a public high school in the Jewish part of town and read about the internal ghetto and outer ghetto dilemma.

What does that have to do with anything?

No problem in America where Jews moved out from New York City to Hollywood one hundred years ago and started the motion picture industry where her parents work. Motion Pictures are American as iPhones.

I had a Jewish friend once. Or at least a friend of a friend. So I can tell you all about Jewish suffering.

Look it up on google. I'm not an expert on it. The last time I studied it was when I was in high school during the punched card days. It's what Jews may face in their individual lives and from generation to generation. They might choose to ignore it or may choose either way in or out, and may even switch several times during their lifetime.

I went to a college that had a high percentage of Jewish students and grad school with an even higher one. Actually, I think I had at least one Jewish roommate from my sophomore year on. None of them took their "faith" seriously with the exception of one Orthodox guy who was gravely serious about the Sabbath and would tear sheets of toilet paper to wipe his arse with a day in advance so that he wouldn't have to do that "work" on the holy day of repose.

Lauren Fleshman basically did the same thing Steve Magness did and on this board only she got totally hammered for it. Both are "insiders" in their minds and have insight and love to use the internet to pump up their egos and gain a relevance in that format. Neither have any experience that compares to the issues going on with the very biggest and top world class endurance athletes.

Someone with real world medalist credentials over the last 20 years, like Rupp, Meb, Lynn Jennings, have the right and credentials to be taken very seriously. And even top national class runners don't have a clue about the sport of world championship winning cycling over the last 30 years.

She backtracked on the saying "99 percent of the top athletes are clean" saying she meant everybody in the world that is even a recreational endurance competitor. Someone like herself, a very talented runner but not close to Olympic medal in track, would be hard to justify the risk versus reward in cheating. In the cycling world if you believe Armstrong (and I do) it wasn't possible to compete without doing what everybody at the top was doing and was allowed until the last few years.

break it up wrote:

Someone with real world medalist credentials over the last 20 years, like Rupp, Meb, Lynn Jennings, have the right and credentials to be taken very seriously.

So someone who's been to three World Championships in track and at least two in XC, and competed extensively in Europe on the oval, can't be taken seriously because she lacks the hardware? Experience and the fact that she's obviously smarter than most people counts for nothing?

Interestingly, both L.A. And L.F. ran the NYCM without the intention to compete for the win! They are practically the same athlete.

It really doesn't mean much. Making a World Championship in distance races as an American when you aren't one of the top 5-10 in the world doesn't convince me. Especially as an obviously intelligent and articulate upper middle class distance runner with a Stanford education. Who wasn't going to face the moral dillema that people like Armstrong did in justifying cheating. Or likewise some dirt poor Morroccan or Algerian in track.

Someone like Bob Kennedy and Lynn Jennings were in the mix. Fleshman likes to see herself as more important or relevant than she is. At least she is a lot more credible than the major media like Rick Reilly from ESPN. Or any other sportwriter with a forum that acts like we should care what they think about a sport they pay attention for about two weeks every 4 years.

Everyone who has ever competed at that level or even a national class level knows she is right and a clean sport hopefully we all can be confident can be maintained.

If you are a Gentile I believe Jews will not be honest with you. Not automatically your fault at all. It's because of the sordid past. Since I am not a Gentile, my ethnic group has virtually no Christians, Muslims, nor Jews, I *think* I heard a little more honesty from Jews (and Arabs) over the years at work and such. I'm not obsessed at all with this. Just when I read that when someone who obviously is a Jew claims not to be it brings back stuff I learned long ago about the culture of the kids I went to high school with.