Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?

Very interested! Thank you for your generous contributions, and I hope you get a chance to explain how often you think LT or SLT sessions should occur (and why).

Good stuff here.

As you say, you have to match the training with the target race and with the make up of the athlete.

I do think that there is considerable individual variation in training reactions, so one learns from season to season according to reactions to work done; that is, how the athlete's performance capacity reacts.

It's great to hear from Mr. Canova and Mr. Cabral, as both draw on extensive real world/athlete experience - recognizing the tradition/evolution of the sport, as well as applying physiological principles when they help.

Antonio, I read the following passage in your article which is why I said that:

"Away from the specific sessions the majority of the training is mixed running at various intensities.

1.Slow continuous recovery runs. These are performed on all kinds of terrain, from road to cross country and parkland. Once a week he runs on the beach.

2.Fast continuous runs away from the track (progressive AT continuous runs).

3.Slow continuous warmups and cool downs before and after specific sessions. This is something that all Portugese runners consider important in developing stamina.

With regards to AT training, Rui performs a large amount for the 800/1500/3000 events. This is especially so during phase 1 and to a lesser extent during phase 2. However, during periods of frequent competitions he performs a maximum of 1 AT session each week. This AT training is not scheduled in advance, but it comes naturally if he feels that he is sufficiently recovered to do it. This is the typical Portuguese way to do it. However more advanced Portuguese coaches have begun to schedule AT work as a specific session. This does not always involve a continuous run, but can also take the form of long repetitions.

"

I sent you the JK training articles a long time ago and this sounds almost exactly the same as what JK advocates ("going by feel" or progression running)

I do not agree.

Perhaps you have come across his "general career training outline?"

In this he shows very nicely and clearly how to integrate all the parts into an entire CAREER's worth of training.

He mentions many concepts in the article for the many different athletes that ask him questions about the best ways to train a certain system. This does not mean that he trains his athletes this way.

I would suggest you read the training guide (which I believe I once e-mailed to you) and go to webarchive.org and type in paragonrunning.com which shows 28:06 10K runner Weldon Johnson's training in 2000).

All top athletes of aerobic events train for lactate threshold improvement. An excellent source for this work is Marius Bakken's Kenyan training articles. Their fantastic ability to train below the threshold by feel and their substantial aerobic bases help them to become a dominant distance running nation.

This is true for INSEASON training DURING THE IMMEDIATE PRESEASON AND COMPETITIVE SEASON.

In the offseason you risk low blood pH and training poor movements (bad economy) if done too often. Also, this is not race specific because there are no elite 5,000 meter track races in November!

Perhaps I am misunderstanding this but I do not athletes who, in the offseason, train the LT 4-5 times per week are wasting their time at all. They are training the most effective systems.

Look at Marus Bakken who used to run 8:13 for 3,000 meters and now runs 13:06 and has been under 13:10 3 times from a country (Norway) not known for great distance runners.

Yes, it always good to hear you speak about the topic

because you are most knowledgeable.

I agree with this. If you try to do too many types of training, you'll end up "not" doing the important types of training frequently enough. I'm not referring to JK's program specifically, just to any training program that tries to do too many things.

[quote]Antonio Cabral wrote:

Since I did read a few JK articles, the problem with JK is that DISCRIMINATION. He mention so many kinds of different physiologic training targets, so many training paces, so many training workout formats, that if you try to use them all, the in the year round ther´s no time available to train them all consequently !

Since this topic comes up (the periodization and fitting in all the workouts) here is JK's outline to show how he goes about it:

"Wasting bandwidth - a general career training outline

Here are the fundamentals of our training approach. We use this same basic outline throughout an ENTIRE CAREER from about age 15 forward, with mileages steadily increasing toward the maximum as a runner demonstrates the ability to tolerate the load and benefit from it (this is BASIC training). We aim for two peaks per year. This policy is more conducive to long term development than is trying to peak three times in a year, as is often done in college (and sometimes in high school). We don't ALWAYS follow a 7-day pattern, either, but since most runners are often constrained by external demands (school, etc.), it's useful to acquire the ability to function well within a 7-day schedule. This is used for ALL track events from 1,500m through 10,000m, with adjustments made along the way as a runner shows a tendency to improve from a particular balance of workout types (this is the ART of training). Just as Lydiard's elite runners trained on the same basic plan until it was the time of the year for them to move toward their specialties, the aim of EVERY runner who races at middle and long distances should be to acquire a high level of aerobic fitness and to handle steadily increasing training loads (read: mileage).

We set the paces for timed workouts based on recent time trials or races (also depends on if there is an important race within a few days or whether the week's mileage is planned as high or low, etc.). In any case, we'll almost ALWAYS start SLOWER than the intended average and work into a speed which keeps lactate levels under complete control until the final 2-3 minutes of running. The PACE may be FASTER than the "laboratory GXT definition" of LT pace as "approximately one hour race pace", but the lactate levels THEMSELVES are what we are concerned with, NOT necessarily the PACE. For example, a runner who is in CURRENT shape for a 15:00 for 5,000m may have a theoretical LT pace of 5:15-5:20 per mile and might on one day perform 10 x 3 min. on/30-60 secs. off (so-called "high density") at an average of 5:15 mile pace for the 3 min. runs. Then on a DIFFERENT threshold workout, the same runner might do 3 x 8 min. on/5 min. off (lower density) at an average pace of 4:55 per mile (covering roughly 6.5 laps in each 8 min. bout if done on a track). Or the workout might consist of 20 x 400 in around 75, with 20-25 secs. rest periods - another high density session but run at a different pace than the first high density session. The point is to work at VARIOUS speeds but to stay on the comfortable side of tying up, only feeling like you're really "ripping it" during the last 2-3 minutes of the entire workout - and even THEN not rigging, but getting a "fast flying" feeling - working but not straining. You must train your body to operate under CONTROL while recruiting different muscle fibers, with various ranges of motion, and at different power outputs, thereby stimulating some systems while recovering others. High density repeats use predominantly slow twitch fibers and can be repeated fairly often in lieu of continuous runs. Lower density repeats allow you to spend significant time at or below your LT while running FASTER and are complementary to the high density sessions.

4-8 WEEKS EARLY PRESEASON:

This phase is loosely structured, with the emphasis on rebuilding mileage and on running by feel while covering some of the necessary bases.

2-4 days per week - Progression runs (no pace parameters yet - start slow, gradually and spontaneously increase speed to the high end of aerobic effort and stay there from 30-65 min., with a faster finish if feeling strong)

1-2 days per week - Sets of buildups or strides (ex.: 2-3 sets of 5-6 x 15-40 secs., jogging equal distance between reps and jogging 5-10 min. between sets - always do buildups, strides, and drills WITH the wind, if any) + drills and/or hills on occasion + 2-8 min. @ 90% effort (following last set of strides) every 2 weeks

1 day every 2 weeks - Long easy run (getting longer each time, last 1-3 miles gradually faster if feeling good)

Phase in doubles 1-2 times per week for 2 weeks, 3-4 times per week for 2 weeks, 4-6 times per week after that

4 WEEKS LATE PRESEASON:

Here we get more structured toward Mondays and Wednesdays being faster days and Saturdays being long run days (schedule shifted if needed based on whenever the long run is most convenient). The basic outline below totals 65-80 miles for a week at MINIMUM (depending on average training pace) and totals 125-150 miles at MAXIMUM (depending on pace).

Sun. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy ("shake-out" or "super-O2" pace) / P.M. 30-95 min. easy (normal comfortable pace)

Mon. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Progression run (spending 30-65 min. at a high end of aerobic effort) OR Tempo run with 20-25 min at LT effort OR High Density LT repeats (ex.: 8-15 x 3-4 min with 30-60 secs. rest periods)

Tue. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-95 min. easy

Wed. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Progression run (spending 30-65 min. at a high end of aerobic effort) OR High Density LT repeats (ex.: 15-25 x 60-90 secs. with 20-25 secs. rest periods) OR Sets of strides OR Lower Density short LT repeats (ex.: 12-20 x 45-90 secs. at roughly current controlled 3,000m Time Trial pace with nearly equal rest-to-run ratios)

Thu. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-95 min. easy

Fri. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 35-65 min. easy with 4-10 strides near the end

Sat. 125-155 min. easy with last 10-20 min. gradually faster if feeling good OR 95-125 min. with last 30-60 min. picked up to a strong high-end pace OR A.M. 30-35 min. very easy / P.M. Long warmup (25-35 min.), CONTROLLED (deliberately slow start) Time Trial of 3,000m-8,000m - designed to determine critical training speeds and make adjustments (60-65 min. total)

4 WEEKS EARLY COMPETITIVE SEASON (assuming Saturday RACE):

From this point on, runners who specialize at 1,500m will gradually gravitate toward the lower (or moderate) outlined mileage levels and will place slightly less emphasis on threshold work, favoring repeats more often than continuous runs and moving toward Lactate Tolerance training slightly sooner than the longer distance runners. Races during the early season are usually overdistance for 1,500m-3,000m runners, underdistance for 5,000m-10,000 runners (unless a time is needed as a qualifier).

Sun. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 30-95 min. easy (normal comfortable pace)

Mon. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Progression run (spending 30-65 min. at a high end of aerobic effort) OR Tempo run with 20-30 min at LT effort OR High Density LT repeats (ex.: 8-15 x 3-4 min with 30-60 secs. rest periods or 15-25 x 60-90 secs. with 20-25 secs. rest periods) OR Sets of strides (if long RACE previous Saturday)

Tue. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-95 min. easy

Wed. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Lower Density short LT repeats (ex.: 12-20 x 45-90 secs. at roughly current 5,000m race pace with nearly equal rest-to-run ratios) OR VO2max training (ex.: 6-8 x 2-3 min. at slightly slower than current 3,000m race pace)

Thu. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-95 min. easy

Fri. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 35-65 min. easy with 4-10 strides near the end

Sat. 95-125 min. with last 30-60 min. picked up to a strong high-end pace OR (rarely) 125-155 min. easy with last 10-20 min. gradually faster if feeling good OR RACE of 3,000m-5,000m (10,000m only if needed for qualifier)

4 WEEKS MID-SEASON (assuming Saturday RACE):

The 1,500m runners still spend more time on the faster workouts than longer distance runners, occasionally staying in touch with their LT training. Races are usually underdistance or specialty distance for all runners (unless a time is needed as a qualifier).

Sun. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 30-95 min. easy (normal comfortable pace)

Mon. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Sets of strides OR Tempo run with 20-30 min at LT effort OR High Density LT repeats (ex.: 8-15 x 3-4 min with 30-60 secs. rest periods or 15-25 x 60-90 secs. with 20-25 secs. rest periods) OR Lower Density long LT repeats (ex.: 4-5 x 4-5 min. at roughly current 5,000m race pace with 3-4 min. rest periods or 3 x 8 min. at roughly 10 secs./mile slower than current 5,000m race pace with 3-5 min. rest periods)

Tue. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-95 min. easy

Wed. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Lower Density short LT repeats (ex.: 12-20 x 45-90 secs. at roughly current 5,000m race pace with nearly equal rest-to-run ratios) OR VO2max training (ex.: 6-10 x 2-3 min. at slightly slower than current 3,000m race pace with equal rest-to-run ratios) OR Creatine Phosphate training (ex.: 2 sets of 2-3 x 7-10 secs. @ 98%-100% effort with 60 secs. walk between each and 8 min. walk between sets) OR Lactate Tolerance training (ex.: 8-10 x 45-65 secs. at slightly faster than current 1,500m/mile race pace with rest periods of about 1.5 times the run periods) OR Lactate Clearance training (ex.: 2-3 x 30-40 secs. at 95%-100% effort with 3-4 min. rest periods)

Thu. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-95 min. easy

Fri. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 35-65 min. easy with 4-10 strides near the end

Sat. RACE of 800m-1,500m (1,500m-5,000m specialists) or 1,500m-5,000m (10,000m specialists) OR 95-125 min. with last 10-20 min. gradually faster if feeling good

4 WEEKS LATE SEASON (assuming Saturday RACE):

Time to peak out. Lactate Clearance training is often done by all runners during this stage (if there are not too many races scheduled during the season), but only if regular speed maintenance (buildups and strides) and some Creatine Phosphate training has been used first.

Sun. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 30-65 min. easy (normal comfortable pace)

Mon. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. Sets of strides OR High Density LT repeats (ex.: 3-4 min. reps with 30-60 secs. rest periods) OR Creatine Phosphate training (ex.: 3-4 x 20 secs. @ 98%-100% effort with 60 secs. walk between each)

Tue. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-65 min. easy

Wed. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. VO2max training (ex.: 6-10 x 2-3 min. at slightly slower than current 3,000m race pace with equal rest-to-run ratios or 12-15 x 1 min. at slightly faster than current 3,000m race pace with nearly equal rest-to-run ratios) OR Lactate Tolerance training (ex.: 8-10 x 45-65 secs. at slightly faster than current 1,500m/mile race pace with rest periods of about 1.5 times the run periods) OR Lactate Clearance training (ex.: 2-3 x 1 min. at 95%-100% effort with 4-5 min. rest periods) OR Taper Session (ex.: 2 x 2 min. + 2 x 1 min. + 4 x 30 secs., each set of 2 having first rep medium speed and second rep fast with rest periods of about 1.5 times the previous run periods and the set of 4 all starting at medium speed and getting progressively faster)

Thu. A.M. 35-50 min. very easy / P.M. 35-65 min. easy

Fri. A.M. 0-35 min. very easy / P.M. 35-65 min. easy with 4-10 strides near the end

Sat. RACE of 400m-1,500m (1,500m specialists) or 800m-5,000m (5,000m specialists) or 1,500m-10,000m (10,000m specialists) OR 95-125 min. with last 10-20 min. gradually faster if feeling good

Oh, yes, don't forget the most important criterion of all: LOVE running!

"

This huge periodization looks great on paper.Running comes down to stress and adaptation over every type of training.you can stress your endocrine and get injured in every single phase and more so in base training as injuries are usually overuse in nature.To reach high levels of specific work you must reach the capacity to run fast longer or fatigue-resistance and to do that many different intensities must be used to properly train the type 2a fibers.The problem with too much periodization is alot of similar energy-systems get pushed so close together causing overtraining.If you gradually bring all the different elements into the mix early there is no rush to get anywhere because you are very close to being neural-muscular and engine ready so you can perhaps avoid a tissue or leg trauma.There seems to be to much division on Aerobic and anerobic training and a misconception as when they need to be incorporated.Of course coming at middle and long distance running aerobically is the way to go but even running for 90 sec hard 90%percent of energy is coming aerobically.Antonio is not preaching anerobic training but a more sophisticated way at training the aerobic engine in relation to the specific demands of the event.

Antonio:

For a guy who thinks that science has no place in training, you sure do a lot of talking about lactate this and that. Why don't you just tell people the workouts you advise and let them get the idea of what you are trying to say. I am sure many would appreciate your training schedules and benefit more from looking at the schedules than any explanation could give. Take care and thanks for your input. Sincerely, Tinman

you are much better when you are "edgy"

Your best post by far,

Tinman,

Why don't you just ask that question, if that's what you'd like to know.

I personally like Mr. Cabral's messages the way they are, the way he chooses to give them, and appreciate his helpfulness.

Tinman wrote:

Antonio:

Why don't you just tell people the workouts you advise and let them get the idea of what you are trying to sayTake care and thanks for your input. Sincerely, Tinman

Tinman

A previous point.

Congratulations Tinman. Now you seems finnaly to understand me !

I ask this because i did check with lots of american friends I do and that i coach and share e-mails and I ask if they understand what i say in thread posts, and i see that they all undrestand perfectly. From Seatle to NY, from the West to the East american coast ! It seems that you are a rare specimen in the world the only one that´s hard to understand me...or that´s one of your false arguments that you come often?

First. You can keep on going with false arguments or quoting things i never said as (...science as no place in training...) that you will never win me and you alwys fall as a ridicoulous one something that you want pass to me. In fact, i never said that. . It was YOU NOT ME that in dessesperation and lack of arguments that you did post that "...ok, science sucks...". Next time if you want a fair discussion don´t put in this site things i never said. Be fair with me, don´t come with false arguments, don´t try to quote things i never said in public!

Once for all let me repeat once again - i hope that this time you are able to understand my english !

I always said that - all auxiliar sciences - as physiology are one of them - that are/take the BACKGROUND of running knowledge not the front line . I do care about physiology or science, simply I have the right to have the opinion that training tecknique that´s more intersting and gives to me (and must give to you all americans as well) the KEY that lack too you to understand distance training startegy. Do you know what´s the meaning of "the background" ? That´s not "no place" that´s the background - second line of interest.

Seriously. Tinman, if you please, read once again my past posts about the subject - all people can read and that´s materila prove that I´m saying the truth I´m not a lier - that´s the prove that i always said the same and never said that science have no interest at all.. I´m not as average americans that say so frequently "i´ve changed my idea!".

Third. If I try to add a few physiologic concepts that´s mainly because people like you Tinman – and most americans as well - that if i would send you a very simple, easy and correct workout design with NO physiologic arguments/validation at all - you will never understand. Most americans do have running ILLITERACY, do you know what´s illetracy ? That´s the inability to read or write in a certain subject despite they know to read and write.

Do you know an example, I did ask me to send you Cherono file log with his training schedule by Renataio Canova. I send that to you. What you said, what were your comments ? Do you remember?

“I´ve read that and analyse that…nothing special” Nothing special ???– I said to myself, but I think that´s marvelous – what such training experience and trainig talent that´s catch in easy and simple workouts !!! I´d love that !!!! Why? Mainly because I´m an expert in training tecknique and in the presence of a concrete workout I know to descodified, but it seems that you don´t. Why with so many physilogu knowledge. Because you do lots of training tecknique illiteracy ! You did study biology, you did study physilogy, you did study biomecanics and so and so…but you did forget a discipline: running training tecknique.

Do you want another example “When I send to you some information about how Carlos Lopes did Lt workouts and how we portuguse we mainly do that you did reply to me “I don´t understand”. So that´s the reason I need to ADD a few pseudo-science justifications that all of will be able to understand what´s deep inside a trainig workout or a training concept.

Fourth. Next time if that´s to discuss about any running aspect – with or without science – I´m ready.

Fight other ideas with your one ideas. Nothing personal. Please use your arguments pro or cons with mine arguments !

But if that´s just to do comments in the style that did “I don´t understand your english”, or that “ok..science sucks”, don´t post for me personnaly, because at that discussion level I´m loosing my time. In the future I will never answer you personally if that´s not a question about real training discussion.

For a guy that says lots of times “ I´m always willing to learn more with others and you are curious to learn about running tranning you did show too much immaturity and contradiction in your arguments aginst me, and you didn´t learn niothing yet.

Last. You don´t understands me? Bullcheat !

You will be very curious to know why I think that that´s a mistake to do more than 1-2 maximum Lt workouts a week, but I think that you aren´t humble enough to ask me…You way to pass the idea that you are superior to me and knows why since a long ago. So, tell me what´s your idea about this? Must we do how many Lt sessions weekly and why? Do yiu have any idea or as always yiou are waiting that the others teach you to finnaly to say as usual “I´ve said that since a long ago” That´s are easy and poor your arguments…

Did you understood “Rui Silva training modulation” or you are like those that said to me that they don+t undrestood because ´that´s compluicate. You see…that´s training tecnique above all, against all american Webb “science”. I´m very close to Rui Silva coach. It works ! So don´t put that on ridiculous.

I guess that´s better that next time you may be humble and understand that about runnimng I know a little more that what you think.

Take your time

Antonio Cabral

PS - Further up you can use my terminology "SLT- specific lactate training workout" and "GLT - Generic lactate training workout". That´s for free, no copywrites or authour rights, and also you don´t need to quote me evry future time that you mention that idea...or i´m wrong and you are saying this since a long ago?

Antonio there are others here than Tinman....

He is not going to ask the question how often you think LT-training should be done. So please give us others the answer...

Tinman and Antonio are both great, I hate to see either of you leaving this forum because of lack of understanding for each other, please get along.

OK Shaeen !

I will do mu opinion later, but befre that i want to post this as an overview that you all may understand better what i will tell you later in a context, not as a isolate/single purely based in a individual opinion or my personal experience. That´s the line to understand running training technique i guess.

The case is that the Portuguese (but we do not the exclusivity of that training !) we discovered the benefits of what is actually called Lt or At training since a long ago.

Besides “continuos runs” that a somewehre physiologist “guru” they think that´s recent and their own discover, or when Tinman says “classic coach style” against “recent/modern coach style” most people thinks that Lt/At training that´s a modern physilogic/scientific discover as a training format, a produit of science knowledge – a “modern” training according scientific style. But that´s ignorance.

Turning back back in time – do you know who is George Young – american runner several times olympic, a steeple runner ? If you read his book “Always Young” by Frank Dolson – World Publications you will see that he combines hard intervals with intense continues runs almost everyday, almost every single session that you will come to the conclusion that´s a man that did lots/tons of LT runs weekly..or daily !

In the scientific “debate” if you read the 1970 book from P.O Astrand P.O. and K. Rodahal “Texbook of Work physilogy” – McGraw-Hill, New York in page 388-390; or

DF Cain, A Infante and RE Davies “Chemistry Muscle Contraction”, Nature, London 1960 (!);

or H G Knuttgen “Oxygen debt. Lactate, pyruvate and excess lactate after muscular work” from J. Appl. Physiology from 1962 (!) you will will know that all those did investigate, did study and did prescribe what´s similar that we actually call Lt workouts.

I can be extensive if I wish, but I don´t want to bored you with more quotes. Just to Tinman undrerstands that I´m not a “scientific idiot” as I feel that sometimes he want to makes us to believe.

But we can turn back further - to early 10s and 20s from the past century from the past millenium ! and see how the famous Finns - Nurmi, Rittola or Hannes Kolehmainen among other – how they they did train and we soon will conclude that first organised and success training method aproach that did includes continuous runs close to race pace, 3-5 times a week. They never imagine that interval training will come after a few decades later, but they did something similar to Lt workouts. A intense continuous run every training session mainly.

Thus LT runs that´s the one of the oldest specific training formats of them all in running middle and long distance. But I think that americans and many others around the world they think Lt workouts that´s modern and very recent and that´s the result and produit of recent scientific investigation. How wrong !

You can argue “all right but that were not the same accurate lactate runs we do actually”. You are right, but this is as everything else, things improve in efficiency and knowledge along the time.

Believe it or don´t the case is that Lt workouts keeps on going the most spead “running salvation solution” or “running universal panaceia” and ignorants they thinks that “oh, old coach schooll they don´t know what´s that”, and also that “the only one and the best training format to improve that´s just to train in anaerobic thershold pace. That´s a wellcome formula/pace in your training schedule - but don´t inflate that to much.

That´s good but poses many problems and a wrong use can be very negative.

Incoming he is right – nervous system and and endocrin glands – you may pay attention – not just to cardio-vascular system recover and acid lactic concentration

Ok as far science knowledge improves we know to characterize LT efforts accurately . But training tecknique knew that since a long ago, some times in a proper use that we think we know actually a few times in the past we use that wrongly or not so adequate, but that´s not the same with science?

The recent AT focus attention, in my opinion mainly didn´t occur due to science. It comes back to focus mainly because the large success of Kenyan/Ethiopians/Marrocans/ all Africa running success.

But the Africans did learn to train lots of LT spontaneously? No they learn with earlier european coaches – that were more attach to running tecknique – once again – than with science people. That´s just aftre that boom when a bunch of cathedratic science men they said: Let´s study that intense runs more deeply.

António Cabral

I see that Renato has posted another message on a different post about Shaheen.

I assume he has returned from Brussels so perhaps he can look again at this thread and provide his information he promised before the Olympics.

I already know how Antonio trains runners or rather the standard Portugese way. Antonio has been kind enough to share it with me in email form. I am suggesting that he shares his expertise with others in an organized format. That is all. Regarding Cabrals messages the way they are, they suck royally. He doesn't know English well enough to clearly convey his expertise. That is why I suggested that he just write out the training he prescribes. Tinman

dunes runner wrote:

Tinman,

Why don't you just ask that question, if that's what you'd like to know.

I personally like Mr. Cabral's messages the way they are, the way he chooses to give them, and appreciate his helpfulness.

Regarding Rui Silva LT training.

Recently I did post Rui Silva´s specific workouts training modulation in another post. People told me that they didn´t understand, too complicate.

How can you pretend that I did explain in detail Rui Silva At training in an Marius Bakken site article – if I just just mention At training as a secondary line of interest, In that context when i did the article I didn´t enter in long details about how Rui do At training, but let me tell you that you can read:

Phase 1 and Phase 2 Rui do Generic LT frequently (close to what we think that´s anaerobic thershold – 4mmol whatever) but in phase 3 Rui do that Lt training less frequently (remember that´s specific for 1500m events mainly) but in what I call Specific Lactate Training – in pahse 3 – that are in repetitions mainly as I say in my article – and also higher than Lactate blood acid lactic concentration higher than anaerobic thershold – let´s say 6-8-10-12 mmol….and more. Do you see my point?

About JK ideas.

I don´t want to discuss with you or with no one JK ideas. Or I discuss directly side-by-side or undirectly I don´t want to discuss. But since he did post in the net PUBLIC articles and turn his traing ideas PUBLIC I have the right to comment. Thus I keep on with my comment. JK that´s a a very good coach but LACKS training DISCRIMINATION.

If you don´t agree - Fine, no problem. Just an opinion. But the prove that I´m right no better than to read your own posts or the last one in this thread. You always come with arguments with long JK quotes. You see…that´s what I told you …That´s ALL THERE !

Once JK did comment my Rui Silva training articles and in all workouts or paces he always said–“I use the same… I say the same “, despite by their comments I see he don´t understood correctly what are the workout goal targets, and consequently he did use innadequate arguments. That´s the question that he seems to know more than me what were in my head when I did write the article !

About off season and the need for Lt.

I said “….5000m/10000m/cross and road events”. You forget cross and road? Portuguese and top european runners most of them they are engage in European Cross champs – the most important european cross run that takes place in November precisely. Besides most of portuguese runners they are road runners specialists and ther´s lots of road runs from October to Mars – including european road Champs also ! So, don´t think that all world seasons periodisation are as your own or american one.

Besides If you read Rui Siolva araticle you will see that Rui – besides is is also engaged in intersting road runs during the fall and winter seasons he do 2 complete cyles periodation an year round – one that´s the Rui Peak peak are indoors and a second one that are outdoors. Thus in both he do basic/off season training and both ends with competitive season. Twice a year round. Thus in both periods he early period he starts with Generic Lt training and ends with Specific Lacatate training. Do you undrestand now.

Finnaly I did my opnion about this original question "About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?". Tinman did that also. Eventually that are different opinions about th same subject. JK eventually do a diferent one, and Renato also a diferent one. Incoming also did his opinion. Other they did or they do or they will do.

I don´t see no problem about that opinions aren´t equal or similar. People can disagree. That´s opinion diversity – no big deal. It seems to me that you Racer 1 (or Andrews)you want unanimity all the time – or to contest all the time diferent opinions with JK opinions. This dosn´t exist in any life aspect.

For the sake of the human beeing that´s good that we think differently. No big deal.

Antonio Cabral

Antonio:

It seems your temper is out of control and it is not at all productive to deal with someone in your state of mind.

I will give you a clear path and avoid interacting with you. I am sure that makes you and dunes (your kiss-butt buddy) happy. Tinman

i dont why there is a discussion...

training above lactic-treshold is still stimulating the aerobic-system so it can also improve endurance/vLT.

Thats why most elite-runners do intervals at 3k-5k-10k pace for most of the year cause its even when running above the lactic threshold(6-8mmol, maybe more) still mainly aerobic work and doesnt damage the system.

Its different to doing 800m/1500m-pace work that only imroves anaerobic capacity.

I am not pretending anything. I reproduced on the last post exactly what you said and I recall your comments in the Marius Bakken forum. Everything you have said here is new to me in terms of what I have heard you say.

I would imagine that this "Phase 3" occurs at a time approaching the competition season when it is necessary to add faster work.

I do not understand what you mean when you say you do not want to discuss JK's ideas and then go on to discuss JK's ideas. Which is it?

No, you said that JK does not do a good job of incorporating the training into a season's work and I showed you, with a training guide, that he does. What does the length of the article have to do with this?

And you seem to take offense where there is none intended. I am not attacking you, only stating a perspective.

This seems the same reason you have clashed with Tinman. When someone agrees with you you use pejoratives and condescend and tell them you disagree, perhaps only for the sake of disagreeing. JK responded to what you ahd written. Years after you write this article, you post again that we have all misunderstood?

How do you explain this? Can everyone be wrong and one person correct?

About off season and the need for Lt.

Yes I understand, but I hope you can understand that when you ask every reader after each explanation "Do you understand?" it conveys the impression that you think the reader is stupid. Maybe you don't, but this is the impression I and others get.

No, not at all. In fact, if you read again, many of the opinions ARE similar because many of the world's best distance runners must use the same basic principles. The specifics of El Guerrouj's or Lagat's or Silva's training are different, but the basics are the same. I am not trying to suppress dissent or disagreement at all, and I do not know why you believe that I am.

This is true.

Racer1 wrote:

The specifics of El Guerrouj's or Lagat's or Silva's training are different, but the basics are the same.

Yes they are all the same, and they are all different.

I knew this all the time.

This is the way I have always done this and known these things, from the very beginning of time.

Thus we are all the same, and we do it all the same way. There are no different ways. Everyone is the same who is great but not everyone, just me you see. Because I know everything. Even when I know nothing.

And you know why this is, you see, yes this is because of who I am, because I am the one, I am me, because I am the........

-- Pretendman