Is mileage overrated? Brandon Johnson ran 1:43 on 50-60 mpw, 1:46 on 80 to 90?

In what way is this relevant to this thread?

AHighSchoolCoach wrote:

Linsanity wrote:

Who the hell would have an 800m guy running 80 - 90 miles a week??

Ummm..... I don't know.... Maybe the legendary coach Arthur Lydiard who coached the also legendary Peter Snell (2 time 800m Gold Medalist and 800m WR of his day 1:44.3 ... ON A GRASS TRACK).

It seems possible that a highly intelligent training program can utilize high mileage in a positive way. The results from Lydiards High Mileage athletes, including 800m runners, is a solid counterpoint to the Brandon Johnson example.

High Mileage is the not the ONLY factor you should or can point your finger at when an athlete has a bad race or bad season.

That is one - 1 - example of an 800 runner who succeeded off high mileage. How many examples of the opposite do you want me to name?

well,. wrote:

That is one - 1 - example of an 800 runner who succeeded off high mileage. How many examples of the opposite do you want me to name?

Yes, thanks for this. When AHighSchoolCoach wrote "The results from [Lydiard's] High Mileage athletes, including 800m runners, is a solid counterpoint to the Brandon Johnson example," the first question that came to mind was: Who were his other great 800m runners? (I could be wrong, but was under the impression that he was *not* the direct coach of Marise Chamberlain.)

I've said this before, but IMHO Peter Snell ought not to be taken as a guide for *any* particular training. He was simply ]sui generis as a physical specimen, and virtually any training he did would affect him differently than how it would affect "mortals."

Hunter S. Thompson wrote:

AMAZING... even the co founder of this site fails to grasp the reality of DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS. how hard is this? when will people GET IT!? some people an run under a given time with 50 miles a week while others will need over 100 mpw for the same feat. i mean COME ON PEOPLE why havent you caught on? you could just as easily dig something up and say "mileage underrated?" some need more mileage some need less. DAM...

10/10. and the lesson is: successful runners make as few mistakes as possible. example:

“I ran 3:52.02 in the mile running an average of just over 40 miles a week, almost all of it high quality. I believed that if I ran 80 miles a week I would run 3:42. Wrong, I upped my mileage, lowered the quality, and never ran faster.” – Craig Masback

this does not mean that all runners should do it exactly like craig masback (obviously there are runners who upped their mileage successfully). it means that craig masback was clever enough to learn his lesson well.

It sounds more like he did not learn his lesson well.

mileage does not mean anything by itself.

what is the quality?

what kind of guy are we talking about?

what kind of recovery are you doing?

what kind of backup do you have, massages, cross training coach, medic

good lord, keep in mind that middle distance running is 2-4 minutes in length.

running a bunch of 7 minute miles does not really count for anything at all at 800 m except that you'll dull the guy's speed and he'll maybe be a bit better aerobically.

you can burn out running 80 miles per week if you are not recovering and going too hard all the time. while you can progress somewhat on 120 miles per week slower. it's whether you recover or not much more than the miles.

rather than subject a speed guy to altitude training i'm wondering about the sleeping altitude tent?

certainly EPO is a quick fix. 100 guys can now go 400 and such..

longjack wrote:

snell running 630 per mile average???

that is going backwards even for a somewhat fast guy in snell.

maybe 10 milers in 62-64 minutes over hills on the turf in the rain..on a very average outing.

in 1977, i ran with speed 800m guys like dennis norris (21.5-ish 200m guy) in new zealand over 18 miles and the pace was 630 per mile the first couple and after than it went to 6 minutes down to 530 per mile...and the big hill (1 mile) was always balls out, way under 5 minutes per mile effort, way under.

lydiard buildups are all over the place. and the reporting my guys is all over the place. best ask the training partner of snell about what he really did and in which season.

Are you seriously saying that speed based 800m runners ran 28km from 4.20/km to 3.25/km? I dont believe that. I know plenty of 800m runners who run decent 1500m who would really struggle with that.

made me laugh

yootoober wrote:

Les wrote:

Going back a long time, but Mark Enyeart may be the world record holder for results off the least mileage. A converted quartermiler, he supposedly ran his 1:44 off 3 miles a day of training.

http://www.si.com/vault/1975/06/30/616667/high-fast-and-very-upsetting

I thought this was an exaggeration until I read in his local paper that he later stepped up his mileage to build a real base -- all of 25 miles a week.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19781114&id=V9pSAAAAIBAJ&sjid=WoADAAAAIBAJ&pg=7108,4182317

Here's the 1:44.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrUwXb7P_Ag

In the blood-doping prime age. 1:44 leading the entire time off 3 miles a day for a white dude is "not normal". He's not even breathing hard after the finish line, he looks like Rudisha (who doesn't actually breathe through his mouth/nose, just takes in oxygen from his skin)