Running bums: Sad or Admirable?

Of course those material things aren't everything but I think it's safe to say they are important to most people and are definitely important to me. I wan't money so I not only am able to afford a house, car , etc but also because I want to be able to travel and go on nice vacations.

Now 4 or even 8 years isn't a whole lot in the grand scheme of things but we have to keep in mind that for entry level jobs most companies would prefer a young 22 year old fresh out of college that they can mold compared to a 26-30 year old who may not be as easy to mold. One of the main parts of my job is to screen new potential hires and when it comes to entry level jobs in a company or industry and when all things are equal my bosses would prefer the guy/girl fresh out of college who is more likely to embrace the company culture because he or she doesn't know much else. In short it's much harder to land these "shitty" jobs as a young fresh faced college grad.

shukhov wrote:

I know it's cliche as frigg... but who needs a "nice" house or a "nice" car. Most of the "nice" houses I've seen people slaving away for are ugly. People with actual taste go for more modest homes and end up saving money. I grew up in 1400sqft cape with one bathroom/4people, but it was attractive and tasteful. It's acutally a point of pride for me now, and I couldn't imagine living in one of the cookie cutter, new subdivisions with 2000sqft homes zero community.

The same goes with cars. I couldn't imagine wanting to pass up a nice used pickup or used subaru in favor of a brand new F150 or a frigging Porsche. The people who spring for these things have their prioriies all figged up and don't realize how stupid they look.

However a true running bum cannot afford to live in a 1400 sq ft house that is attractive and tasteful, and he can't afford to buy a nice used pickup. He can't afford squat except for renting a crap apartment in a bad part of town, and driving a rusty POC. I agree there's more to life than making money but you have to make SOME money, and the older you get, the more important it is to have some comforts in your life. I'm 55 years old and I'm damn glad that I worked like hell when I was younger. Because now I live in an attractive and tasteful home, not a crap apartment in a crime-ridden part of town. I bought my car used, not new, but I paid cash. To each their own, but don't knock those who chose to make money so they can hire you to work for them.

I was more arguing the case that it's worth delaying real life for a while, thus making a little less in the long run. But I'm sure if a running bum budgeted correctly, even he could achieve the status of 1400sqft home with a used car.

shukhov wrote:

I know it's cliche as frigg... but who needs a "nice" house or a "nice" car. Most of the "nice" houses I've seen people slaving away for are ugly. People with actual taste go for more modest homes and end up saving money. I grew up in 1400sqft cape with one bathroom/4people, but it was attractive and tasteful. It's acutally a point of pride for me now, and I couldn't imagine living in one of the cookie cutter, new subdivisions with 2000sqft homes zero community.

The same goes with cars. I couldn't imagine wanting to pass up a nice used pickup or used subaru in favor of a brand new F150 or a frigging Porsche. The people who spring for these things have their prioriies all figged up and don't realize how stupid they look.

I think you are missing the point. It's not about having a nicer house or a nicer car. It's about having more control over your life and life's choices.

As I move through middle age I have discovered that having options and choices is far more important than having material possessions. I want to be able to decide when I will retire without having to worry about finances. I want to do work that is satisfying and rewarding instead of just having to earn a paycheck. I want to be confident that if I don't like my job or my boss I can easily walk away and find another one that is better without having to worry about how I will pay the bills. Or I can choose to start a business and make it successful because I have the necessary resources and connections. I want to know I can travel when and where I want.

How does this relate to being a running bum? Because when you spend your 20s building your career or furthering your education you are making the connections and developing the knowledge that you will continue to leverage throughout your career. You have a bit of a leg up on those that took some time out.

I understand that experiences are important too and they can also help sustain us and enrich our lives, but it still comes down to choices. If you decide to spend your youth chasing a dream it is certainly valid and meaningful, but it most likely will impact the options you might have later in life.

What about bums who work in running stores that don't run?

Thought this was relevant to this thread- bookmarked it a few years ago.

Fast Times for Jobless Runners:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970204261704574274070492669550

Eric the Rod wrote:

What about bums who work in running stores that don't run?

They probably wouldn't count as running bums but I don't think you can count anyone with a job as a "bum."

hopefully harry wrote:

To each his own I guess. But take it from a guy who did the "running bum" thing for a while. Being poor and not having any disposable income gets very old once you hit 30.

Yeah, I realize that can happen. That's why I'm keeping a foot in the real job door, so I will have something more in my CV than selling running shoes, if I feel like I want to grow up some day. I'm 27 now. If/when I end up giving up this lifestyle, I still hope I'll find I job that is less boring.

The past few years since graduating from an extremely successful D1 program, I have been juggling part-time jobs while largely committing myself to running. Because it was all I had ever known, I figured it was the right path. But I have felt how much different it is to put your "all" into running when the real world doesn't recognize your hard work and accomplishments the same way college does.

It took an injury for me to see how distracted I've become from reality. Perhaps some people truly enjoy the commitment and focus, but I cannot justify missing out on life so I can run some fast times and be sort of well-known in the running community. To me, the 20's should be full of friendships, fun experiences, great memories, and freedom. You simply cannot relax and let loose when you have to manage workouts, 8+ hours of sleep, doubles, nutrition, etc. Even if you are well-off financially and don't need to work much OR you are professional and you get everything taken care of, if you want to be something in running you need to live a very modest lifestyle. Some people love it...I see it as being "tied down." I want to be able to do something as simple as meeting some friends for a late dinner on Tuesday night without worrying AT ALL about lack of sleep, morning workout, etc.

I see these sub-elite guys and their persistence, and I wonder what drives them. It's one thing to run for fitness and community, and another to make it the sole purpose of your existence.

I wonder if they completely removed the shell of running (which is very thick for some), they would feel truly happy and fulfilled with their lives. Sometimes I think running may be all they have.

don't understand the obsession with retirement on these boards. not against saving money but damn "The master in the art of living makes little distinction between his work and his play, his labor and his leisure, his mind and his body . . . " whats the point of thinking of quitting a job you like when there is plenty of time to work and have fun when you are young and old - why delay either?

. . . wrote:

don't understand the obsession with retirement on these boards. not against saving money but damn

For me, it's about freedom. I came up hard and was out of the house at 17. I've been supporting myself ever since. I put myself through college and grad school by working multiple jobs. I never got to bum around Europe, go on spring break with my buddies, or even take a month off work. I never had the freedom to walk away from work because if I did, I'd have ended up homeless. I busted my ass through my 20s, and am now pretty well-off financially. Once I hit 52..53..I'm done. And I'll have the rest of my life to do whatever I want.

Maybe that doesn't resonate with others but having the freedom to do whatever I want, whenever I want, however I want....will be a very nice thing.

Is really hard to pigeon hole people. As we see how many stories on here. As I get older I don't really view them as a subject to my scorn or adoration. Rather unique human beings. With a story. Some rich some poor. It was the best of times and worst of times. Running is the common thread that binds us. The race is finished once you are lowered into the ground. I have seen guys who lost it all, only to make it back in multiples in their 60s. So no. Wait till the fat lady sings is my opinion. Fate is fickle.

[quote]. . . wrote:

don't understand the obsession with retirement on these boards. not against saving money but damn

"The master in the art of living makes little distinction between his work and his play, his labor and his leisure, his mind and his body . . . "

whats the point of thinking of quitting a job you like when there is plenty of time to work and have fun when you are young and old - why delay either?

[quote]

One of the benefits of retiring when you're old is, assuming you busted your butt and were able to make a bit of money in your younger days, is that now you have some extra money to spend whether it be in order to travel, take nice vacations or move somewhere you want to be rather than where the your job is located. Chances are you won't have this kind of money when you are young and straight out of college.

Also one of the reasons I think it is best to bust your butt at a job in your 20s,30s and 40s then relax in your 50's, 60's and 70's is that you are simply more capable of putting in the long hours necessary to get ahead when you are young. I know these young guys find it hard to believe but chances are you won't have this kind of energy 30 years from now.

To me it all comes down to your goals. If money truly isn't important to you and you are passionate about running then I say go for he olympic dream or whatever it is you want to accomplish. However, keep in mind that monetary and material goals have to be WAY down your list of personal goals if you go for the true "running bum" lifestyle because unless you actually make it to the olympics you will not be able to support yourself off of running alone and you will more than likely be getting paid minimum wage.

However, I do find it a bit naive when people defending the "running bum" lifestyle argue that they are not materialistic and don't need fancy cars and huge houses. I agree, you don't need these over the top testaments to your wealth. However, the true "running bum" lifestyle won't usually get you any kind of house of your own or a half way decent car. You also wont be able to travel, eat at nice restaurants or do other cool stuff that money requires.

I do know people who seem happy living this running lifestyle though although it seems pretty empty to me.

I was always a big believer of giving young men and women a year or two after college to find themselves and pursue passions fully. This could mean joining the peace corps (what I did), teaching English abroad (what my son did) or even training for a possible olympic birth. After these two years though, which would usually mean 24 or 25 years old, I think it's time for people to start looking for a real career path. The only exception in my mind would be if you are 25 and ranked one of the top ten individuals in your respective event, thus having a somewhat legitimate shot of qualifying for the olympics.

So, in short, I find it sad if you are a 26 year old 2:20ish marathoner working at a running store in order to make the trials.

When I was in my 20s and running upwards of 100 miles a week there were a lot of guys I knew doing similar amounts of mileage. Most of us had full time jobs and actually found that a lot of our fun, freedom, great experiences and so on CAME from running. I know that loads of my good memories from those years are from running.

You mention worrying about running. I don't think many of us ever worried about running aside from occasional pre-race nerves. Why worry about it? We were doing it for fun. If we wanted to have a late Tuesday dinner we'd have it and if we were short on sleep on Wednesday, so what? Doing that occasionally was not going to wreck our running though it might have made Wednesday's running less than wonderful.

It seems to me that the sport changed a lot when it became professional. A lot of guys now seem to feel like it's something they "work" at even if they also need to work at something else to support themselves. In the pre-professional era, when you pretty much had to work at something else, running was your play, no matter how seriously you took it.

I'm still facebook friends with a few people that were on my level in college that are still going after it. I use them to gauge how I probably would do if I went that route. Its sick of me to say this but it gives me a sense of relief they're getting lapped by Rupp

This is better than I could have put it.

4+ years of demonstrating you can function well in a corporate environment (show up for work on time, take direction, not cause trouble, etc etc) is something interviewers quite like. Not to mention actually working in your field.

You can tell yourself that employers will be much more wowwed by someone who spent those 4 years trying as hard as they could to O.Q. and just missed. Fact is that person is more likely to come off as a bit odd, and likely to be a coaching issue. They have no relevant work experience, or even corporate environment experience. And proven work ethic? More likely they'll just be seen as a failure. Which is accurate: they did in fact fail.

against the grain wrote:

I was always a big believer of giving young men and women a year or two after college to find themselves and pursue passions fully. This could mean joining the peace corps (what I did), teaching English abroad (what my son did) or even training for a possible olympic birth. After these two years though, which would usually mean 24 or 25 years old, I think it's time for people to start looking for a real career path. The only exception in my mind would be if you are 25 and ranked one of the top ten individuals in your respective event, thus having a somewhat legitimate shot of qualifying for the olympics.

So, in short, I find it sad if you are a 26 year old 2:20ish marathoner working at a running store in order to make the trials.

Interesting that you give a couple years to an individual to pursue their dream but once that window is closed, apparently the gig is up. Not everybody finds their career path in such a ordered and linear fashion. And so what if someone takes 10 years of their life and never hits the straight and narrow corporate or academic path to the American dream. Sure beats drug abuse, alcoholism, and whatever maladies that plague us in society.

Personally, I had an opportunity to step out in my late 20s, when I was finishing my masters degree, so I 'bummed' for about 8-9 months to see what I could do. Finshed the degree about 6 months late, did not make OTs but had ssome great moments, and then went onto my career. No regrets, and I never held judgment against those who stayed put for years longer at service sector jobs so they could continue doing what they loved to do.