Why don't more top runners train like Lagat?

I may say something about your question.

First statement. If you think that i´m a low mileage prescriber you are wrong. Well, what we mean by "mileage" training. By mileage training i mean the total distance mileage done, be easy or fast pace.

However if we mean by mileage the volume done steady-state aerobic training, i guess that we might do the maximum mileage without burn yourself. Permanent high aerobic mileage during every phase of the season, with just a sensible decrease if you need to recover or taper and peak to a run. I don´t follow the train periodisation "a la typical Lydiard" that you early built an aerobic first and then late pre-competitive season you cut off that high aerobic mileage and you move to low mileage with high weekly frequency and the training is mostly fast anaerobic demand at enormous tax. Therefore with a season periodisation that since the early season tries to include and incorporate with rich sensible balance aerobic and aerobic training.

And yes, i´m a high mileage prescriber - do the maximum aerobic training to whatever you can resist up to the point that might prevent overtraining.

I did coach people that during certain limited periods they did 275kilos per week. My limit is not the 100miles per week volume, as i accept that someone might train just 50 mile and enhance his performance with that minimum mileage volume and to some with that low mileage is possible to be world top class.

In distance training mileage is the major percent of the total training volume of course, but the important one part of the total training, the must shall be the specifics, te kind of training that carry on higher anaerobic percent that just mere aerobic training.

I know people in different middle or long distance events, with some different mileage training patterns, some with high mileage and could maximize his own training potential with rich performance, be the case of average runners or world top class runners. But I also know low mileage runners that did reach their performance target while being low mileage runners.

One curious case i know with low mileage is the portuguese runner Fernanda Ribeiro, earlier 5000m world recordist, 10000m winner in the olympics with bronze in 10000m in theolympis as well, 5000m silver in the Olympics, word champion, European champ, and she did low mileage and hated to train, just singles, and rarely more than 1 hour easy run a day. But also specific intervals of course.

But i know also high mileage runners like Antonio Pinto, 2h06m36 still europen record/27:08/13:03 winner of London marathon twice, he used to train more than 300kilos per week in some occasions and mostly of daily mileage is done at a pace that is still fast for him.

Therefore what I think about mileage ? What i think is that one mediocre up to average runner that does 100miles a week, or does for the fun of it, the happiness that he might take from it, and that emotion can be real, and that can bring to reach his goal chromos eventually and ther´s nothing wrong with it.

Or why he does so ? To enhance his performance from 34min 10k to 30min 10k for instance ?. What´s the meaning of 30min 10k ? Is just an individual performance with no collective importance, no national, or international meaning. No relevance at all. Only might satisfy individual ego. I respect what one average runner might do, I agree and I motivate him. But we need to get the feet on the floor. Therefore it´s not important what that average runner does, if he does high or low mileage. I know about some folks that tried the 1000miles pattern and they burn out and soon they give up, because tey couldn´t stand what for them was a program mileage impossible to follow.

OK thanks for the response. I know you are a very much "depends on the athlete and his event" coach, so sometimes high mileage, sometimes low.

What about Mamede? Would you say his training similar to Lagat's: lower mileage, higher focus on intensity, volume is overrated?

In terms of the original question, I guess the best answer is, most top runners don't train like Lagat, because if they did, they would not be top runners. They don't have the same physical talents as Lagat, and would not respond the same way to the same training.

Of course, if that answer is wrong, seems like modern coaches would have figured that out by now.

He trains like that because he is older + is primarily a 1500m runner

rekrunner wrote:

OK thanks for the response. I know you are a very much "depends on the athlete and his event" coach, so sometimes high mileage, sometimes low.

What about Mamede? Would you say his training similar to Lagat's: lower mileage, higher focus on intensity, volume is overrated?

In terms of the original question, I guess the best answer is, most top runners don't train like Lagat, because if they did, they would not be top runners. They don't have the same physical talents as Lagat, and would not respond the same way to the same training.

Of course, if that answer is wrong, seems like modern coaches would have figured that out by now.

I think that you'd be surprised. Lagat is a unique talent 2nd fastest 1500 guy all time. Had he stayed a Kenyan citizen would have more than likely had to move up earlier than he did as a U.S. citizen. So he was able to train as a 1500 runner for much longer than slower guys that would have moved up and still make world and Olympic teams. Many could train like him. But most would move up to be more competitive at a longer distance. The lucrativeness of the Marathon has also lead many of the world class 5-10k guys to go straight up to the marathon. Thus making Lagat still a thread in the 5 even though he is 38.

Seems that most of the responses deal with Lagat's mileage v. quality of workouts, a discussion which the OP certainly invites. But what about Lagat's apparent emphasis on an 11 month cycle, with one month *totally* off? Is that again indicative of his unique gifts, or something to learn from?

OldMan92 wrote:

Read that article on Lagat. After the season he takes 5 weeks off. His first run back, a 30 minute "jog" may leave him short of breath. By week 3, he can do a 10 mile "jog" in 55 minutes.

1) His natural capacity is much greater than most people and certainly higher than schmos on here who doubt his mileage and

2) He trains at a MUCH faster pace than you do

____________________________________________________________

I would like to share this info about Lagat’s training from my notes taken from Coach James Li presentation at the 2008 National Podium Education Project held December 9 - 13 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Coach Li presentation is the one missing in these files:

Bernard Lagat 2007/2008

Comparasions and Reflections, Dr. James Li

Coach Li begins talking about Lagat’s progression over the years and says they have been working for 12 years (now 17) since 1996 when he recruited him for Washington State.

He arrived at WSU as a very good runner in terms of NCAA level and improved over the years.

Then he showed us a chart with his yearly progression and number of track races.

Lagat races a lot, more than 20 times per year at world class level in distances from 800, 1000 1500 to 5000 m. Lagat has been ranked in top 3-4 in the world for 8 or 9 years, “Tremendous range and tremendous consistency”.

Competitions

“We do race a lot, I do believe racing can help at least in Kip’s case”. 30 plus in a year,20 or more races the last couple of years (2006-2008).

“There is no other way to produce good athletes. In 2007 ran 20 races, 2008 in 22 races, one year ran 19 when his son was born. He is very used to race a lot”.

There is a lot of benefits of running races. Almost all races have been of high quality. In college they used “practice races” like 3000 m in 8:00-8:02

Basic training concepts.

Aerobic base.

Coach Li believes in “good quality long runs” Lagat runs 13 mile loop between 69-71 min (3:19/km) That base is what gives a middle distance runner the strength

Speed based on running strength.

“I honestly don’t know what actually Lagat speed is because we never tried very hard”.

In 400 m he ran about 49 flat when he was in college during a 4 x 4 relay against the Huskies, he can run low 48 or high 47, that is probably he can do.

In 800 m his PR is only 1:46.00. He reminded us the 1500 m final of the Athens Olympic Games 2004. The last 700 m of that race was probably run on 1:45 pace.“The guy is pretty fast”.

“The speed is based on the strength from the long runs”. You got to be able to run in 50-51 at the end of a 1500 or 5000 m race”

Relatively high intensity.

“If he does high mileage, he breaks down, he does about 70 to 80 miles (112-128 km)

over the years up to now he manages 60-70 miles. However, the guy runs very very good quality, he goes first mile in about 7:00 and once he picks up then 5:30/mile pace, over 3000 feet altitude. Good quality mileage”.

Recovery / Rest

Coach Li does not believe in "this thing called train hard……. a lot of athletes don’t rest enough get so worried about if I don’t go out and I hammer every day I am not going to be very good. Kip is not like that”……….

He takes a lot of time off. There are days that are very easy. Every time when he comes back runs very good quality

Consistency over long period of time

Lagat has been injury free for most of the time, except January 2008 when he was out for two weeks.

The second part soon!

Marco,

Any chance you can post Part 2 of your notes from the Li presentation?

Thank You

Information Seeker wrote:

Marco,

Any chance you can post Part 2 of your notes from the Li presentation?

Thank You

Bump for the same reason

someone had to do it wrote:

Low Mileage

Lagat - 0 world records, 0 olympic gold medals

High Mileage

Haile gebrselassie - 27 world records, 2 olympic gold medals

And what does that prove regarding training??? Well, nothing! There are plenty high mileage runners far, far less accomplished than Legat. In fact , Lagat was faster than Geb at 1500m.

Subfive wrote:

someone had to do it wrote:

Low Mileage

Lagat - 0 world records, 0 olympic gold medals

High Mileage

Haile gebrselassie - 27 world records, 2 olympic gold medals

And what does that prove regarding training??? Well, nothing! There are plenty high mileage runners far, far less accomplished than Legat. In fact , Lagat was faster than Geb at 1500m.

Geb did run the 2nd fastest indoor 1500 of all time. I think the point here is that while high mileage might not be the be-all end-all, certainly the lagat example has more counterexamples than it does corollaries.

Lagat has found a coach and program that is suited perfectly for his abilities and has worked well over the years. Yes, it could serve as a model for others. But I think it is important to acknowledge that high mileage has had greater success in more people. Lagat is just one case.

I get the impression that most people here don't really know how to train for the mile. If you look at 1500 runners, they are not high mileage by any means, more like 60-80 mpw at the most.

aslan wrote:

But I think it is important to acknowledge that high mileage has had greater success in more people. Lagat is just one case.

That's not true at all. You're making things up. I can think of as many low mileage runners as I can high mileage runners. Furthermore, how do you know Geb wasn't doing low mileage when he ran that indoor 1500?