We've closed this thread to new posts. Please discuss this topic in a new thread given the fact she just won the race outright in 2023. Does that mean that the 2022 cheating allegations definitely have no merit?
I'm not in the business of putting a cap on other people's potential. On the other hand, it increasingly looks to me that your ego was hurt because she run Badwater faster than you did.
No, I guess what I am saying is maybe those geezers just aren't as fast as you seem to think they are.
Look at where Lee was at that point and look at how well he got to Lone Pine. It's obvious where he had his problems. She pulled away when he was flying.
You kind of lose your credibility when make that comment about those "geezers" ... attacking Harvey Lewis's ability is laughable.
Her performance at the Bear 100 indicates to you she is not good at the 100 mile distance? You seem focused on that single result and are ignoring her other performances.
I'm from Minneosta, we have a race here called Superioer 100 that Harvey ran 22:22 at, not even anywhere close to the CR there that a bunch of locals have run similar times at. And you want to compare Harvey to a sub 2:20 guy?
I'm fairly sure that the Badwater Race Director is familiar with the race. Shall we rehash what his current position is?
The people who operate the race, witnessed it and her performance, have 50 volunteers on the course... shall we rehash their position?
The RD also has a race to protect and without "definitive proof" he'd unleash the fury of Ashley's followers. He's in a tough spot, there's not much he can do. I'd imagine he wishes it went away but he's kind of stuck.
If you were familiar with the race, which I'm fairly sure you're not, you'd know where those volunteers would be, where the RD would be, where Ashley was, who was there to witness her (nobody!). His position is the official company line. That's pretty much it.
If you want the opinion of somebody in the know who is incredibly well respected with this race and in the ultra running community, go take a look at what Harvey Lewis is saying. He doesn't have to protect the race and it's pretty clear what he's saying.
I just went and browsed Harvey's FB athlete page and his personal FB page (I am FB friends with him), and I don't see anything. What is he saying?
I'm not in the business of putting a cap on other people's potential. On the other hand, it increasingly looks to me that your ego was hurt because she run Badwater faster than you did.
Nope, not at all. I race and challenge myself and am totally fine with myself. In a clean race, she'd run Badwater faster than me. Doesn't bother me at all.
The RD also has a race to protect and without "definitive proof" he'd unleash the fury of Ashley's followers. He's in a tough spot, there's not much he can do. I'd imagine he wishes it went away but he's kind of stuck.
If you were familiar with the race, which I'm fairly sure you're not, you'd know where those volunteers would be, where the RD would be, where Ashley was, who was there to witness her (nobody!). His position is the official company line. That's pretty much it.
If you want the opinion of somebody in the know who is incredibly well respected with this race and in the ultra running community, go take a look at what Harvey Lewis is saying. He doesn't have to protect the race and it's pretty clear what he's saying.
I just went and browsed Harvey's FB athlete page and his personal FB page (I am FB friends with him), and I don't see anything. What is he saying?
Detur Digniori The final mile. Run, walk or crawl every inch of 135 miles… The only way. In the end it is honor that is all we may have in this world or the next.
Pretty obvious what he's saying there.
One can steal but they can’t steal our mojo. Out for the morning run. My greatest happiness comes from these moments; being in nature, sometimes solo, other times shared, pushing ourselves further than we thought possible or just simply taking in the beauty. ...
I am not attacking Harvey. Big fan, hes a great guy and a great ultra runner. But he's one of those guys that can run A LOT and that is his strength, not his speed. Its not surprising to me that an elite triathlete can beat him. I guess thats where we differ. I dont have these 'ultra runners are gods' blinders on that you seem to have.
I don’t think that 17:26 100 mile result by Ashley Paulson means much because 1) Ryan Hall has her run some races as workouts (not 100%), 2) she was sick much of the race (nausea, blood in urine/stool), 3) she had foot pain, 4) it was only her 3rd 100+ event, and 5) most of her race experience is on road courses.
What year did he run that 5:19 at JFK.
I’ll repeat that if she cheated, please some come up with evidence! I love honest and fair races.
Look at her post on IG from the race. It wasn't a workout. Nausea and foot pain are standard in 100s, blood in her urine and stool won't affect how fast she runs (and I kinda wonder how she saw that) ... everybody likes to describe the war story in their posts about their 100s, especially if you've got 90K+ followers that look up to you. She went out gave it her best, covered the distance in 17:26.
If you take a step back and can truly think, "yeah, somebody who ran just their third 100 last fall in 17:26 and has times that correlate better at shorter distances had the ability to pull away from Harvey like he was standing still in his 10th Badwater after Father Crowley when he was having a great run by his standards" ... I don't know what to tell you.
The 5:19 50M was last November. Absolutely a guy who could win WSER.
Well, we will have to disagree. I think her goal time indicated more of a workout. I also think that having nausea, foot pain and blood in urine/stool for most of the race can slow you down a lot. I also think her road marathon results (top 10% of all Olympic marathon trials starters) on a hilly course shows that her “slow” pace on the road course at Badwater might be faster than others who are slower marathoners.
I do hope people come forward with evidence so we can stop speculating. :-)
Her performance at the Bear 100 indicates to you she is not good at the 100 mile distance? You seem focused on that single result and are ignoring her other performances.
I'm from Minneosta, we have a race here called Superioer 100 that Harvey ran 22:22 at, not even anywhere close to the CR there that a bunch of locals have run similar times at. And you want to compare Harvey to a sub 2:20 guy?
He ran that 22:22 two weeks after having run 125 miles in a 24 hour event. LOLOLOL.
The reason that I look at someone's marathon time is because marathon times are comparable, unlike ultra time. There are too many factors in a ultra race to compare times across race. too many things can potentially go wrong.
But still, running talent is universal. If someone is fast at marathon, that doesn't mean they will not mess up in a 100 mile race. However, that there is nothing to prevent them from running a fast time in a RUNNABLE course if they train their guts, learn all the aspects of an ultra. Talent cannot be learned, that's way you must have it in the first place. Paulson has the talent, as it is shown by her marathon time. All that's left is for her to learn the ultra running sport. I don't understand why someone hold firmly on to the belief that she cannot learn this sport.
Right, and also ran 144 a month before Badwater. But its unfathomable an elite triathlete with some stout ultras under their belt can show up fresh and beat him.
Her performance at the Bear 100 indicates to you she is not good at the 100 mile distance? You seem focused on that single result and are ignoring her other performances.
I'm from Minneosta, we have a race here called Superioer 100 that Harvey ran 22:22 at, not even anywhere close to the CR there that a bunch of locals have run similar times at. And you want to compare Harvey to a sub 2:20 guy?
His ability on the Badwater course is similar to a 2:20 guy. He also ran about 16 flat at Long Haul in Florida after pulling an all-nighter driving from Cincinnati to Florida when his flight was canceled. And he set the record last year in Big Dog's Backyard Ultra. His training was insane getting ready for Barkley. Just ran 148 in a 24-hour race in early June (roughly a 16 flat pace for 100, but for 24 hours). He was looking like he was going to run around 25 or so for a while this year at Badwater. Sorry, but she's just not anywhere close to his level, and to think she's going to wear him out and put the hammer down at that stage of the race is unrealistic. He was still moving very well. She's good, but she's not better than him. She'd probably need to make what would be roughly a 3-hour improvement in her 100-mile ability since last fall and it's one thing going from 27 to 24, but it's completely different going from 17 to 14.
Her performance at the Bear 100 indicates to you she is not good at the 100 mile distance? You seem focused on that single result and are ignoring her other performances.
I'm from Minneosta, we have a race here called Superioer 100 that Harvey ran 22:22 at, not even anywhere close to the CR there that a bunch of locals have run similar times at. And you want to compare Harvey to a sub 2:20 guy?
His ability on the Badwater course is similar to a 2:20 guy.
This is a ridiculous to make since no truly fast people have ever even run Badwater. This just goes to show how much you believe in the hype of this race that no real elite athletes have ever even run, until now. And you dont like the result.
Right, and also ran 144 a month before Badwater. But its unfathomable an elite triathlete with some stout ultras under their belt can show up fresh and beat him.
Stout is relative. 17:26 is pretty good. But it's nowhere near elite. I don't find it at all plausible that she's gonna get from that to Harvey level in less than a year. Her progression in ultras wasn't all that quick and she didn't show any signs of having world-class abilities.
There’s zero doubt she cheated. C’mon guys, enough of the nonsense excuses . She’s just not talented enough. That’s enough evidence, given her history of cheating she also needs to prove she didn’t cheat. Having wonky data doesn’t help her cause. I’ve never had to edit data after any Ultra. Where is she? Doing interviews?
here's what i want to understand: she stopped 17 times between miles 90 and 115. these the most stops, and most frequent stops, of her entire race. she idles for 30-60 seconds most times, or walks for 30-60 seconds. a couple of times she idles for up to 3 minutes.
then, at mile 115, her watch allegedly cuts off for 17 minutes (and 1.5 miles), and when it resumes, she stops only 2 times, walks to 2 times, then *runs non-stop for 2 hours and 4 minutes,* up the steepest part of the course. then we see a tiny bit more walking near the finish, but no idling whatsoever up Whitney Portal.
why so many stops between miles 90-115? was she hurting? those miles were downhill and then flat, recovering from the hills of miles 70-90.
to me, it all comes down to what was happening during those 17 minutes after these very frequent stops, when the watch allegedly died, and what happened on the dark, long stretch of Whitney Portal when, to borrow Harvey's words, "no one was watching." it beggars belief that she could have run a two-hour stretch up Whitney Portal without stopping or walking, and with an average HR of 120 for that entire two-hour portion.
His ability on the Badwater course is similar to a 2:20 guy.
This is a ridiculous to make since no truly fast people have ever even run Badwater. This just goes to show how much you believe in the hype of this race that no real elite athletes have ever even run, until now. And you dont like the result.
His ability on the Badwater course is analogous to a 2:20 marathoner on a marathon course. Looks like I was ambiguous in what I wrote. It's a different kind of skill, just like Usain Bolt has a different skill than Elide Kipchoge. It's very unique running, with the hills, the heat and the distance. Harvey has (and has had) an elite-level combination of these skills.
As for the result, it really doesn't matter to me who wins and it doesn't matter that she's faster than me.
But like I said, Harvey's level is being able to run a ton of long races. He's not even close to the fastest ultra runners. He's just incredibly durable. So she doesn't need to even run truly elite ultra times because, guess what, neither can Harvey.
Right, and also ran 144 a month before Badwater. But its unfathomable an elite triathlete with some stout ultras under their belt can show up fresh and beat him.
Stout is relative. 17:26 is pretty good. But it's nowhere near elite. I don't find it at all plausible that she's gonna get from that to Harvey level in less than a year. Her progression in ultras wasn't all that quick and she didn't show any signs of having world-class abilities.
You have no idea what her 100 mile ability is. You have no idea what her 100 mile ability is. You have no idea what her 100 mile ability is.
I've run 3 ultras. First two were on the same course. Well over 19 hours first time, just over 16 hours for the win the second time. I was in far better shape the first time. Paulson's miracle split was 6 minutes faster than Pam Smith. Her last hundreds have been 19:44, 22:44, 22:46 and 21:04.