PED and Drug Use During Seb Coe's time

So basically Gonzalez admired his competitors but he felt that he was in the same league as they were. This makes complete sense as he has comparible PRs over 1500m and mile and a comparible championship medal haul over his entire career.

René Magritte wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

Folks. Just so you know, the illogical nut job posting as "Coevett", who thinks a majority of Africans have been doping since they first emerged in the 1960s as world beaters, and who also believes morality is an exclusively Anglo-American/Western European trait, also goes by the registered name "Trollism". He's an unapologetic bigot, well known in these parts for his racialist views that would make Cecil Rhodes proud.

Please refrain from feeding the troll.

I very much doubt that Coevett is actually "Trollism" if I were to place $, I would bet on a "newbie" or the "Lydiard is God" character.

The irony is the other day El Keniano started a post on the Kenyan elections and he was half of the anonymous posters.

I never post anonymously, I assure you.

Coevett wrote:

That says Africans cheat in far greater numbers and much less than 30% of white middle distance runners are doping.

Oh, I am talking to a white supremacist here. Well that explains matter.

As for your 30% at Daegu (WCA), again, the authors (not the British press) wrote:

"The estimated prevalence of past-year doping was 43.6% (95% confidence interval 39.4–47.9) at WCA"

El Keniano wrote:

René Magritte wrote:

I very much doubt that Coevett is actually "Trollism" if I were to place $, I would bet on a "newbie" or the "Lydiard is God" character.

The irony is the other day El Keniano started a post on the Kenyan elections and he was half of the anonymous posters.

I never post anonymously, I assure you.

Nope, I don't go under those names. I never suggested Africans were always cheating.Nor am I a racilist. You however are a racist black power fanatic, an extreme marxist and an unashamed apologist for the genocide taking place against white farmers all across Africa, their ancestors having been their for centuries. No doubt your family is also in the privileged 1% while half your countrymen starve and daddy sent you to a private school in the US or GB were you learnt the art of victimhood.

If drugs were being used by some nations under some kind of state sponsored programme during the 80's then you would expect both their male and female athletes to be competing at a similar level. The 800m lists do not show this at all. There are hardly any East Europeans in the men's list, and hardly any Brits or Western Europeans in the women's.

The general consensus at the time was that steroids, the ped of choice at the time, benefitted speed and power events. Almost all those caught in this era were throwers or sprinters. I cannot think of a single elite male mid distance guy from that time testing positive for steroids, and I think most elites from that time would tell you that it wasn't considered of much or any benefit for middle distance events. The only exception would be for women, whose physiological disadvantage compared to men would respond far more if steroids/testosterone were introduced, whatever the event, and give them a more 'male' appearance and a clear advantage over those not using.

It is clear that the Russians who were running 1:53-1:55 and 3:52-3:57 in 1980 were clearly on something, and we now have more recent events confirming a long systemic history of drug use in that country. At the same time we had the British and US women struggling to break 2:00 and 4:00. Surely if the western men were using steroids, then why not the women?

On the flip side, if the western guy milers were all doping, then why did the Russians and eastern Europeans have such a relatively poor record in those events. Indeed, they had the odd performance in a major champs, usually held behind the iron curtain, in which someone would run way above any level they'd shown before or usually showed again. Maybe they were experimenting with blood doping or something else but never quite felt they'd found the right formula to guarantee long term superiority.

It seems far more likely to me that those 'Communist' nations which considered sporting prowess to be an extension of the greatness and superiority of their political ideology, basically encouraged their male athletes in power events (throws and sprints) to dope and their women also. That would also explain why the German and Russian men generally stayed at the top in the sprints and throws. If everyone else in the West were doping to the same extent, then surely the East Europeans wouldn't have been able to stay on top for so long?

The likes of Walker, Scott, Coe, Ovett, etc, would have got involved in T&F in the 60's when it was amateur and there was little if any money to be made. There wasn't the huge monetary incentive to get involved, and there certainly wasn't the psychological incentive to 'cheat' for the honour of their nation and way of life, as there would have been installed in those youngsters with talent in the East.

One also has to realise that the middle distance guys would have been tested for the same things as the sprinters, women and other groups. Yet, how many can name an elite male middle distance athlete from the late 70's and early 80's who was caught? There were plenty of East European women middle distance girls caught, and many sprinters and throwers of both genders. If all were equally doping then that wouldn't be the case.

It should also be remembered that the UK were randomly testing their athletes (and catching them) out of competition from 1984, long before the IAAF introduced it for the World's elites in early 1989.

Blood doping was banned in 1985, with Coe doing a lot to bring this about. It seems strange therefore, that his best time in the longer, more aerobic 1500m, should come about a year later in 1986.

Indeed, in 1989, at the age of 32, and by then having been randomly tested out of season by UK athletics for several seasons and also by the IAAF that year, he was still able to run 1:43 low and come close to winning the World Cup gold over 1500m. It does not seem implausible that someone running such times clean, in an environment of such random out of competition and out of season testing, wouldn't have been capable of 1:41 high and sub 3:30 clean, a decade earlier when in his peak early 20's?

And the fact he could no longer show and maintain peak form week in week out in his 32nd year, but rather reach a few small patches of top form, is totally in keeping with the natural effects of ageing and gradual decline.

The overwhelming evidence we have about drug use in the decade leading up to 1983 and the introduction of professional prize money and sponsorship, is that it was far more prevalent in some countries; namely Communist east european ones where there was definitely a state involved system that had nothing to do with financial gain; and in some events; namely those which were considered beneficial to the use of muscle building steroids. There is little evidence any of the world's leading middle or distance guys were using steroids. There is only a small amount of evidence that some were using blood doping. As far as I'm aware, only a couple of Finnish and Italian distance runners have ever admitted to homologous blood doping. These were 5 and 10k men not half miler/milers.

IIRC, the Italians only dabbled with this from c. 1983, which for me is a bit of a watershed year. With the introduction of trust funds, legal sponsorship deals, prize money and the introduction of the Grand Prix a year or two later, there was for the first time, BIG money to be made if one was an Olympic champion or world record holder. As a result, I would not be surprised to see the percentage of athletes that used drugs increase after this juncture.

casual obsever wrote:

Coevett wrote:

That says Africans cheat in far greater numbers and much less than 30% of white middle distance runners are doping.

Oh, I am talking to a white supremacist here. Well that explains matter.

As for your 30% at Daegu (WCA), again, the authors (not the British press) wrote:

"The estimated prevalence of past-year doping was 43.6% (95% confidence interval 39.4–47.9) at WCA"

Yawn... So basically, denying that African athletes are genetically superior to white athletes is white supremacism?

There is really no point in arguing against SJW (black power/anti-white racism) logic.

Peter Coe and Dr. Martin were the Salazar/NOP of the day, and do you think AlSal would blood-dope Galen if it weren't technically illegal? Of course he would. He would consider himself irresponsible as a coach to not give his athlete every advantage. As it is we know that Coe and Martin deliberately lied about Seb's training volume in their training book.

BTW Both Salazar and Coe had health issues back in the early 80s that could well have been by-products of clumsy reinfusions.

Paula "EPO Cheats Out!" agrees. Just like Paula, there's no way Coe could have been doping. It's a shame she couldn't keep all her lies straight the las time she pretended she never doped.

It's been suggested he was gifted the job from Diack and Diack was running a myriad of corruption schemes including blackmail. Coe is also the guy that did not see a single bit of corruption at FIFA, ever!

This is is a false choice. The IAAF is so corrupt there is no way to know who is/isn't clean.

This is a failed assumption. Western countries are not less corrupt than African ones when it comes to Track and Field.

Coevett wrote:

Yawn... So basically, denying that African athletes are genetically superior to white athletes is white supremacism?

No. Your statement is indicative of white supremacism:

Coevett wrote:

That says Africans cheat in far greater numbers and much less than 30% of white middle distance runners are doping.

Or maybe we could have a sub heading. LED and drug use during the time of Ryun?

Well that's easy. In 67 steroids were legal and there was no testing at all, even for world records. First tests introduced in 68 at Mexico City and thereafter steroids banned. And what happened to a certain miler's form from 68?

Coincidence? Who knows.

Cuckoo wrote:

Or maybe we could have a sub heading. LED and drug use during the time of Ryun?

Well that's easy. In 67 steroids were legal and there was no testing at all, even for world records. First tests introduced in 68 at Mexico City and thereafter steroids banned. And what happened to a certain miler's form from 68?

Coincidence? Who knows.

🤔 hmmm (I'm banned from saying anything more on this one issue).

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

🤔 hmmm (I'm banned from saying anything more on this one issue).

+1

The mods want to keep up the facade of the good old time where the runners would compete without PEDs. For whatever reason. As if our ancestors were so much more noble than us.

casual obsever wrote:

Coevett wrote:

That says Africans cheat in far greater numbers and much less than 30% of white middle distance runners are doping.

Oh, I am talking to a white supremacist here. Well that explains matter.

As for your 30% at Daegu (WCA), again, the authors (not the British press) wrote:

"The estimated prevalence of past-year doping was 43.6% (95% confidence interval 39.4–47.9) at WCA"

Do you still maintain I'm a white supremacist for believing that doping is a far greater problem in Kenya and East Africa than most other countries?

Do you have a special shaming name that derails rational discussion for those that believe doping is worse in Russia than other European countries?

pop_pop!_v.2.2.1 wrote:

Coevett wrote:rather than corruption rife African ones.

This is a failed assumption. Western countries are not less corrupt than African ones when it comes to Track and Field.

Another doping apologist post that hasn't aged well.

Enjoy reading your posts and battles (I don't agree with some of what you say but you do make some interesting, thought provoking, and valid points). Your thoughts on British and Irish coaches who work with or who have worked with convicted drug cheats? Do you think it's right that convicted drug cheats come back and are taken on by high profile coaches? Do you think if a coach takes on a convicted drug cheat, after the cheat has served their ban, that this casts a dark shadow over the coach, especially if the drug cheat(s) qualify for the Olympics and steal prize money from clean athletes?

Coevett wrote:

pop_pop!_v.2.2.1 wrote:

This is a failed assumption. Western countries are not less corrupt than African ones when it comes to Track and Field.

Another doping apologist post that hasn't aged well.

Are you one of those naive cats who believes that just because athletes don't test positive or trip their ABPs they wouldn't be doping? ?. And just because a certain nation is testing positive left & right doesn't mean other nations aren't doping. It more suggests these nations are getting bad doping advice on glow times, ABP thresholds, anti-doping countermeasures, etc.

Look at the Russians - most of their ABP cases are very high Off-scores; they're blowing their thresholds like there is no tomorrow. Lol. They were also using oral androgens which creates all kinds of metabolites that are being pick up with the more sensitive steroid tests WADA has developed nowadays (they're getting bagged alot on retested samples).

Also, ever seen the FB hacked WADA document? There's some athletes from non-African nations listed as "suspicious" or "likely doping"....imagine that. Lol.

Ah the good old days when I could post under a multitude different names. El Keniano never knew what hit him.

Coevett wrote:

casual obsever wrote:

Oh, I am talking to a white supremacist here. Well that explains matter.

As for your 30% at Daegu (WCA), again, the authors (not the British press) wrote:

"The estimated prevalence of past-year doping was 43.6% (95% confidence interval 39.4–47.9) at WCA"

Do you still maintain I'm a white supremacist for believing that doping is a far greater problem in Kenya and East Africa than most other countries?

Do you have a special shaming name that derails rational discussion for those that believe doping is worse in Russia than other European countries?

If you are not racist and a white supremacist, then you surely come across as one.

If anything, the past year and a half? two years? How long have you been polluting this place for? show the racist scum you are.

Coevett wrote:

pop_pop!_v.2.2.1 wrote:

This is a failed assumption. Western countries are not less corrupt than African ones when it comes to Track and Field.

Another doping apologist post that hasn't aged well.

You're only 47 or 48 and you said you fvcked your knees up. You also encourage MMA athletes to dope. You are a doping apologist who hasn't aged well.