PED and Drug Use During Seb Coe's time

Blood doping was big in the early-80s, there wasn't anything else for distance guys not into steroids.

Cyclists of that era were into what they called speedballs, but I never saw that on the track.

carmichaeldonuts wrote:

Not necessarily saying Sir Coe himself was dirty, though I am curious what drug varieties and methods competitors were using. The more detail the better.

There's been enough discussion of the history of PEDs in track on LRC that you should be able to find a lot of stories here pretty easily.

Google will get you more info about these two famous incidents involving American athletes. The first was at the 1983 PanAm games. 13 US athletes went home before their events after finding out about newer, more reliable drug tests. The second was in the run-up to the 1984 LA Olympics. Americans were tested in the spring, so dopers would have a heads-up if they were glowing.

Here are some classic articles from back in the day:

John Hendershott, "Steroids: Breakfast of Champions," T&F News (1969). Hendershott was the editor of T&FN.

Bill Gilbert, "Drugs in Sport," Sports Illustrated, June-July 1969, three parts

Here's an SI article that touches on steroid use in the discus:

Blood doping was fairly common among distance and mid distance runners.

comedyrelief wrote:

Blood doping was fairly common among distance and mid distance runners.

Painkillers and stimulants as well as roids and blood bags in the fridge.

carmichaeldonuts wrote:

Not necessarily saying Sir Coe himself was dirty, though I am curious what drug varieties and methods competitors were using. The more detail the better.

As for elite women at the time, I've heard that neither Florence Griffith-Joyner, Marita Koch or Jarmila Kratochvilova tested positive for steroid use in their illustrious careers either... so also interested about testing approaches.

Thanks for the help! I'm working on a thesis - not on this topic per se, but such data will be compiled and visualized nonetheless.

Read up on Athletics West.

AW is definitely worth reading up on. Check out the history of State sponsored doping programs, akin to US domestic programs not limited to AW ---> NOP

leads wrote:

carmichaeldonuts wrote:

Not necessarily saying Sir Coe himself was dirty, though I am curious what drug varieties and methods competitors were using. The more detail the better.

As for elite women at the time, I've heard that neither Florence Griffith-Joyner, Marita Koch or Jarmila Kratochvilova tested positive for steroid use in their illustrious careers either... so also interested about testing approaches.

Thanks for the help! I'm working on a thesis - not on this topic per se, but such data will be compiled and visualized nonetheless.

Read up on Athletics West.

they used a lot of hard core steroids,as well as blood doping back then.nandrolone,testosterone,dianabol.sometimes stanozolol.all those drugs are still used today.the east germans were fond of their oral turinabol,but they injected as well.

I thought HGH was pretty big in the USA in the 80's, and that's why Aouita would visit there for a few weeks every year. He was still boasting about its powers to his athletes when he landed a coaching job in Australia and it cost him his job.

As far as Coe is concerned, on the one hand blood doping was legal in the early 80's, so he wouldn't be technically cheating even if he did, however he was at the forefront of the campaign to make it illegal and in fact was still running 1:43 AFTER it had been officially made a PED and when he was way past his best.

I still think it would be unlikely Coe would have the brass to go for the head job if he had even engaged in anything as shady as 'legally' blood doping in the 80's. I would also imagine that Russia and their state sponsored hackers would have found something on him by now if there was anything.

The only suspicious thing about Coe is he ran really fast, so that's not any real suspicion unless you want to accuse every great of being a cheat. He ran at a time when most of his rivals (until Aouita) were from other European and American/Anglo nations rather than corruption rife African ones. He did train in Italy sometimes, where we know there was a blood doping cuture, but I believe he went winter training there. As far as I know, you wouldn't blood dope in winter.

You're out of your mind if you think there wasn't cheating in the good old days. And what are Russians going to hack? It's not like there is a trove of digital data from that era (pretty hard to hack a file cabinet).

Here's a good lead to chase down about Coe himself:

http://www.is.fi/yleisurheilu/art-2000001066515.html

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6985614

Here's another link to somebody still deeply involved in the sport:

https://www.evolutionary.org/european-athletics-president-accused-of-covering-up-doping-tests/

comedyrelief wrote:

You're out of your mind if you think there wasn't cheating in the good old days. And what are Russians going to hack? It's not like there is a trove of digital data from that era (pretty hard to hack a file cabinet).

Yes, sorry. I forgot that the Russian state only has a team of hackers at their disposal and nothing else.

LOL. The KGB or East Germans were probably spying on Coe and Ovett during the 80s to try to copy their methods. East Germany was spending x% of it's GDP simply to get to the top of the medals tables. I'm sure they could have spared a few bob for one of their agents to take a look at Coe and Ovett who were in different league to anyone else to see what they could learn. If they had ever found any evidence of Coe doping I'm sure it remained on file somewhere and Putin would have been made aware of it by now.

And why am I out of my mind to believe that cheating was rarer in the good old days. Only today I read that 30% of athletes at the WC 2011 admitted to doping, bu 45% at the Pan Arab games did (and Pan Arab is obviously far less elite than the WC). Take out the cheating Africans and steroidal sprinters and maybe 10% of European/American middle-distance runners today are cheating, in a much dirtier sporting culture where the financial rewards are much greater (and when Europeans and Americans can hardly compete with the Africans as it is). In other words there is far more incentive for Europeans to cheat these days and it would appear that still only a minority do. So I doubt very much if there was much dirty stuff going on back then.

Coevett wrote:

And why am I out of my mind to believe that cheating was rarer in the good old days. Only today I read that 30% of athletes at the WC 2011 admitted to doping, bu 45% at the Pan Arab games did (and Pan Arab is obviously far less elite than the WC). Take out the cheating Africans and steroidal sprinters and maybe 10% of European/American middle-distance runners today are cheating, in a much dirtier sporting culture where the financial rewards are much greater

Um, I think your statistics here take several unsubstantiated leaps.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Coevett wrote:

And why am I out of my mind to believe that cheating was rarer in the good old days. Only today I read that 30% of athletes at the WC 2011 admitted to doping, bu 45% at the Pan Arab games did (and Pan Arab is obviously far less elite than the WC). Take out the cheating Africans and steroidal sprinters and maybe 10% of European/American middle-distance runners today are cheating, in a much dirtier sporting culture where the financial rewards are much greater

Um, I think your statistics here take several unsubstantiated leaps.

Nope. If 45% of Africans are cheats (a conservative estimate based on the Pan Arab Games having far fewer elite runners), then significantly less than 30% of Europeans are doping. It's hardly controversial to assume that doping is greater amongst sprinters in Europe/N America, so I think 10% of MD European/American runners doping is likely an overly high estimate.

Coevett wrote:

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Um, I think your statistics here take several unsubstantiated leaps.

Nope. If 45% of Africans are cheats (a conservative estimate based on the Pan Arab Games having far fewer elite runners), then significantly less than 30% of Europeans are doping. It's hardly controversial to assume that doping is greater amongst sprinters in Europe/N America, so I think 10% of MD European/American runners doping is likely an overly high estimate.

Also, 0.3% of athletes at the WC 2011 failed doping tests, but 4.6% at the Pan Arabs did. Given that testing at the Pan Arabs would certainly be no better (and likely less effective) than at the WC, it seems that the Arabs are even dishonest when it comes to anonymously admitting to cheating.

To be frank, I would guess that at most 5% of white runners are doping, whereas amongst elite African/Arabs the figure is closer to 95%.

Coevett wrote:

To be frank, I would guess that at most 5% of white runners are doping, whereas amongst elite African/Arabs the figure is closer to 95%.

"5%" ??? Where did you get that from? An IAAF public relations spokesperson? 😅 Poistogova, the bronze medalist from London, microdosed rocket fuel, and upon a retrospective ABP review had a "normal" passport. Her partner & gold medalist, Savinova, went heavier on the sauce, but still never tripped her passport. Upon her ABP follow-up review, only 2 out of 3 anti-doping experts concluding that the #'s suggested "likely doping."

So, if these dopers hadn't been caught up in the ARD-recordings, they be sitting pretty with their London hardware (as it turns out Poistogova catches a break and gets to keep her bronze 👎).

Microdosing with rocket fuel doesn't trip the ABP and is basically a freebie (if you don't talk about your doping program on a recorded line 😉 😁).

Hmmm. well sorry for not making myself clear, but I was referring to West European/Anglo/American countries with 200 or so year history of democracy, open justice, and the principle of 'fair play' as a leading moral value. Not former Soviet Union countries, and not Russia which has been banned from competition for state sponsored doping..

But yes, if 45% of Arabs/Africans dope, and lets say a similar number of Soviet bloc athletes dope, then that means if only 30% of athletes worldwide dope, then the percentage of Western athletes doping is likely to be a lot less than 30%, especially if you remove black North American/British sprinters from the equation and focus on white middle-distance runnners. Perhaps you can see the maths in that?

Coevett wrote:

Hmmm. well sorry for not making myself clear, but I was referring to West European/Anglo/American countries with 200 or so year history of democracy, open justice, and the principle of 'fair play' as a leading moral value. Not former Soviet Union countries, and not Russia which has been banned from competition for state sponsored doping..

Yeah...your post is a tad bit confusing. You said "white" runners and the Russians are white. But why do think the West European/Anglo/American countries would have a very low percentage of doping? Because of morals? 🤔 Wouldn't it be more like what you can get away with? (e.g., certain effective but hard to detect PEDs, experienced doping doctors, support from the athletic federations). Remember the Russian had a juggernaut with their doping program; the women runners and men & women racewalkers were killing it. They just like to discuss their doping practices on recorded lines 😁. What makes you think other countries wouldn’t make that mistake?