solosolosolo wrote:
WORLD INDOOR CHAMP makes $125 a year, yet some random golfer on the PGA Tour makes $1M? Absurd. How do golfers get paid more than track stars? Golfing is just a game.
Golfing is 100x more expensive than running = more products to sell.
Buddy Boo wrote:
Booed buddy wrote:Yeah, the lawyer would write the language and the manager would fill in the numbers. the lawyers writes a heck of a lot more than the boilerplate.
Not necessarily. Lawyers do not write all of the language. You know absolutely nothing about contracts. I have written (adapted), negotiated, and signed over 100 contracts. Only a few times was a lawyer involved, and only then to comment on acceptability of edits to terms; such as reduced term of holding liability insurance after a contract was completed. Most edits were accepted by contracts managers.
Selling your stuff on eBay isn't negotiation real contracts. I'd bet 99% of the "contracts" you negotiation you either steal off the internet or have the boilerplate language created by legal zoom or something similar.
But to your point, Yes much of the language on many contracts isn't written by lawyers every time. Nor am I suggesting that. (At some point some of the standard terms probably were...which was my point.)
Sounds like you are only involved with small time contracts which a lawyer isn't needed. when you graduate to real big time contracts, we can talk about how much your really know vs. how much I know.
sebacoe wrote:
I know for a fact (and I know how little that means on letsrun message boards), that Matthew Centrowitz's Nike contract includes $1 million bonus for Olympic gold.
I assume he has a bit lower base salary and earns most of it through bonuses, i.e. USA wins, world rankings, time bonuses, and Olympic/world podiums.
I guessed 100,000 (but only because the rojos failed to black out the comma in the base salary figures, so you could tell it was six figures).
Centro has to be making more then 100k base salary. the man could afford a GTR after only three years of professional running. base price of those babies are 100k+.
solosolosolo wrote:
WORLD INDOOR CHAMP makes $125 a year, yet some random golfer on the PGA Tour makes $1M? Absurd. How do golfers get paid more than track stars? Golfing is just a game.
It was offered before he won world indoors. Television networks pay millions of dollars to broadcast the golf majors. Not so much for track. The one track championship that networks do pay money to broadcast is part of a much larger sporting event that pays no prize money at all.
nop nop nop nop nop wrote:
Centro has to be making more then 100k base salary. the man could afford a GTR after only three years of professional running. base price of those babies are 100k+.
Lease? Paid placement? Bad decision? Bank of Mom and Dad??
Lots of possibilities.
Foda pooda wrote:
solosolosolo wrote:WORLD INDOOR CHAMP makes $125 a year, yet some random golfer on the PGA Tour makes $1M? Absurd. How do golfers get paid more than track stars? Golfing is just a game.
Golfing is 100x more expensive than running = more products to sell.
Wrong. More viewers. Let's talk expensive sports, big boat sailing, that weird event in the Olympics that includes horses and T&F.
Viewers. Verify you have an audience and the money gets good. Just be sure to hold onto the money like MMA, not FIFA player salaries.
LetsRun.com wrote:
We've revealed New Balance's contract offer to Berian in this article:
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/06/find-pro-track-field-runners-make-boris-berians-new-balance-contract-revealed/In that article we laid out a few scenarios so you all can discuss how much pros make. The contract says nothing about making appearances on New Balance's behalf etc. Is that all in the long form?
Scenarios:
Scenario #1- He keeps running great, PRs, and gets bronze at the Olympics – $227,500 earned in 2016 with bump in salary to $175,000 next two years
Berian is already off to a tremendously successful start to 2016. He won the NB Indoor Grand Prix ($3000 bonus), USA Indoors ($2000 bonus), World Indoors ($10,000 bonus), the Pre Classic (Diamond League $5000 bonus). So he would have already earned $20,000 in bonuses. If he goes on to win the Olympic Trials ($7,500 bonus), he’ll be up to $27,500. If he PRs along the way ($15,000 bonus) that would almost assure him a US #1 ranking and an extra $10,000 so that would be $52,500 in bonuses. He would dwarf all of that with an extra $50,000 in bonuses with an Olympic bronze and an extra $50,000 in base pay the next two years.
Scenario #2- Does everything but medal at Olympics – Does all the above but finishes 4th at Olympics instead of 3rd and ends up world ranked #3 – $177,500 in 2016 with $135,000 next two years (3rd vs 4th would cost him $130,000)
Scenario #3- Successful but not the best -#2 in US indoors ($1000) and out ($5000), US ranked #2 ($5000) no PRs, but 3 ($1000 x 3) top-3s in Diamond League races, #8 world ranking (no bonus because US ranking $ is higher) – $139,000 in 2016 and $127,500 in base pay the next two years
Scenario #4- Good US runner who doesn’t make Olympics – #4 at Trials ($0), 5th in 2 Diamond League meets ($0) ends up ranked #4 in USA $125,000 in 2016, same base in 2017 and 2018
Scenario $5 Gets hurt before Trials and is injured for most of 2017 and 2018 but pulls one out of nowhere to make Worlds in 2017 as US #3. He would still make $125,000 this year and in 2017 and 2018 if there are no reductions. He would get a $1000 bonus for finishing 3rd at USAs next year.
I think the contract should require a number of races in place of time bonuses.. As is all athletes do is train and rarely race.
Back in 2008 on NZ television, Nick Willis was asked by an NZ reporter 'what this (the bronze he had just won) means for your future career' and he responded that "this just paid off my mortgage" referring to his house in Michigan. He then said that his deal with Reebok was less then his rivals in terms of base pay but paid big for major medals, later he was upgraded from bronze to silver. Someone I know who knows him later said he bragged that his bonus originally was US$250K but it was upgraded to $400-500K when Ramzi was DQ'd. So Boris Berian's pay for an Olympic medal sounds way, way too low.
Taoufiki Ain't Clean wrote:
Back in 2008 on NZ television, Nick Willis was asked by an NZ reporter 'what this (the bronze he had just won) means for your future career' and he responded that "this just paid off my mortgage" referring to his house in Michigan. He then said that his deal with Reebok was less then his rivals in terms of base pay but paid big for major medals, later he was upgraded from bronze to silver. Someone I know who knows him later said he bragged that his bonus originally was US$250K but it was upgraded to $400-500K when Ramzi was DQ'd. So Boris Berian's pay for an Olympic medal sounds way, way too low.
Willis is a much bigger star in the sport than Berian. Berian has never made an outdoor team and had not won the indoor champs when this contract was signed. Therefore it is unsurprising that Willis's contract would have much more favorable bonuses.
I guessed Berian's number to the dollar.That was kind of easy
Not sure why this is such mystery.
I could easily tell you what two to three other elites make. And I do not know one agent.
How much do you think Andrews makes in base salary? First time around and second?
It's much less than folks think.
Xsww127inm wrote:
So basically - less than a random kid fresh out of law school. Good to know.
You have no idea what you're talking about. A random kid fresh out of law school is lucky to get a job working as a lawyer.
Booed buddy wrote:
Buddy Boo wrote:Not necessarily. Lawyers do not write all of the language. You know absolutely nothing about contracts. I have written (adapted), negotiated, and signed over 100 contracts. Only a few times was a lawyer involved, and only then to comment on acceptability of edits to terms; such as reduced term of holding liability insurance after a contract was completed. Most edits were accepted by contracts managers.
blah blah blah
LOL ... go to sleep Nike shill.
No Pan Am Games bonuses?
We have two new stories out on the Berian lawsuit. Berian's legal team has field its first response and they've fired back on all cylinders.
They argue 1) Nike clearly didn't match as they presented a contract with reductions when the NB contract didn't have reductions and 2) even if they matched Berian still has the right to wait it out until the end of June and sign with whomever he wants and 3) The rip Nike for claiming that Nike's legal strategy is designed to screw with Berian's training.
In our 2nd article, we've compiiled the pros and LRC visitor's predictions for how much you all thought Berian would make. The LRC fans were closer than the pros (makes me wonder if the pros were lowballing on purpose so we didn't think they were rich).
Why isn't McDonalds sponsoring him.
rojo wrote:
We have two new stories out on the Berian lawsuit. Berian's legal team has field its first response and they've fired back on all cylinders.
They argue 1) Nike clearly didn't match as they presented a contract with reductions when the NB contract didn't have reductions and 2) even if they matched Berian still has the right to wait it out until the end of June and sign with whomever he wants and 3) The rip Nike for claiming that Nike's legal strategy is designed to screw with Berian's training.
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/06/boris-berians-legal-team-files-first-response-nike-lawsuit-alleges-nikes-legal-strategy-clearly-designed-interfere-training/In our 2nd article, we've compiiled the pros and LRC visitor's predictions for how much you all thought Berian would make. The LRC fans were closer than the pros (makes me wonder if the pros were lowballing on purpose so we didn't think they were rich).
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/06/pro-runners-react-boris-berians-contract-greatly-underestimated-much-offered/
In playing Nike's lawyer.
The first argument. A comment from Boris's agent is not from NB. They should have included lack if reductions in the offer sheet if it was "material" as nike had know way of knowing the full NB offer.in the alternative, Nike expressly match the NB offer in their message to his agent and therefor the cntract is the same and includes no reductions.
No 2 is a weak argument.
3) Boris snd his attorney contributed to the delay by first saying they would accept service to his attorney then recinded that acceptance forcing Nike to personally serve Boris. Also Boris ignored Nikes for months.
Sara Germano has an article out as well in the Wall Street Journal.http://www.wsj.com/articles/nike-plays-hardball-to-keep-its-athletes-1465258535
Sara wrote:
Mr. Capriotti, whose office is leading Nike’s charge against Mr. Berian, is known for his win-at-all-costs approach, according to rivals. During the U.S. national championships in Eugene, Ore., last year, he threatened to kill a Brooks-employed coach, according to a complaint filed with the police there.
and
Sara wrote:
Mr. Capriotti hosted an annual dinner for sport agents and officials at which a satirical video—presented by Nike—depicted the Nike sports marketing department as Mafia members, taking “hits†on rival athletic companies, according to two people who were present.
Sally Bergesen, chief executive of the women’s athletic apparel brand Oiselle Running Inc., said she later learned she was included in the list of enemies depicted in the satirical video. “Certainly, it was a little rattling,†Ms. Bergesen said.
It's great to see this stuff on the party in print as I'd long heard about this party.
I've been told that the entities on the hit list were
1) LetsRun.com
2) Oiselle
3) Brooks
If you were at the party and confirm that for us, please email us at
letsrun@letsrun.comGaffers wrote:
Love Symmond's tweet about Beast TC having no reduction clauses. Uh, Nick, outside of you, what will the other athletes be reduced from?
Does Katie Mackey's contract say "if you fail again, repeatedly, to make a USA team, we're gonna reduce you...?"
Nike has reduction clauses because they sign big contracts for the biggest stars with the biggest potential. At some point does Nike not have the right to reduce Mary Cain's multi year contract if she doesn't perform to the expectations of her agreement? Sorry folks, this is how life works in the real world and not the Fantasy Land Beast TC world.
If you're contracted to lay shingles on 15 roofs over a two month period, but you only complete six jobs, well guess what??
Anyway, I ran for a major competitor and I had a reduction clause. NB has reduction clauses too.
Without the Letsrun Hates Nike spin, it sounds like from the documents I've read that Nike acted in good faith and simply wanted to match the NB even if it meant no educations for BB, but NB and BB were trying to play if fast and loose. I'm not falling for it.
I agree that reduction clauses make sense send only seem fair to Nike. That is not the point though. If NB wants Boric badly enough to risk not having reduction clauses, then it is still a better offer than Nike offering the same except with reduction clauses. They agreed to match it and they did not.
Buudy bo breep wrote:
In playing Nike's lawyer.
The first argument. A comment from Boris's agent is not from NB. They should have included lack if reductions in the offer sheet if it was "material" as nike had know way of knowing the full NB offer.in the alternative, Nike expressly match the NB offer in their message to his agent and therefor the cntract is the same and includes no reductions.
Nike would fire this lawyer before they had a chance to make this claim. The reductions clause is a standard Nike wants. Unless Nike specifically removes it for Berian the clause stands.
Nike will not set a precedence with Berian by removing the clause just for him. Maybe if he was Farah or Bolt. If they did indeed remove the clause then the precedence would be set. Now all their competitors have to do is offer contracts without reductions and Nike is screwed.
I would bet that if Tom Brady had a bad year this coming season he would NOT be reduced by the Patriots or anybody he's paid to promote. Athletes in the major sports are paid according to past performance and also competition from the contracts of other top quarterbacks as well as being protected CBA's from player unions. Track athletes do not have generally have multiple employers bidding for their services like the major sports. That is how Nike can get away with reduction clauses which would be laughed at if they tried to include that language in a contract for a major sport athlete. There is also no track athlete's union that would probably take dim view of reduction clauses in theory.