Paula Radcliffe: "I can look people in the eyes and say that I ran my whole career clean"

It's really a strange kind of logic to say that because other people lied, that Paula must be lying too. To me it's like admitting you are not smart enough to see the difference. Paula is not Lance, Dieter Baumann, Carl Lewis, Marion Jones, nor Linford Christie.

"Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

rekrunner wrote:

Paula is not Lance, Dieter Baumann, Carl Lewis, Marion Jones, nor Linford Christie.

"

True, but I am picking up a bit of a thread/pattern/similarity there, I just can't work out what it is.

Doubtful, very doubtful. The highest ranking running mark in all of track and field athletes, among a world of with top performing doping athletes...it is highly doubtful.

rekrunner wrote:

It's really a strange kind of logic to say that because other people lied, that Paula must be lying too.

And the simple fact she cheated, then lied and is completely silent, then finishes 5 minutes ahead of 2nd place means she's clean?

"One of those closest to Radcliffe on the lead-up to the 2:15 was [long-time physical therapist Gerard] Hartmann, who spent most of his days for the two months before working with her. “I’d bet my house and all I have that Paula Radcliffe is clean,” he says. “Living with Paula in close proximity over 14 years, I’ve never seen anything but a total disregard for athletes who crossed the line.

“It would be the greatest travesty in athletics if people bandy around rumors that the 2:15 was illegally supercharged. In my view, Paula's legacy is not that she is the world record holder at the marathon, but proof that athletes can break records by abiding by the rules.” "

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Memo

To: Doping Athletes

From: Reality

Those of you out there who are top level athletes in track and field ("athletics") who use banned performance enhancing drugs ("PEDs"): You want Gerard Hartmann on your team. Not only will he massage you like a tireless robot, he will tell the media you are drug-free, and he will do so with an eloquence that would make Seb Coe proud.

So what's the standard here for discussion? If I apply a typical "letsrun forum" standard, I should say something clever like:"I can look you in the eyes and say that I'm a billionaire. Just saying it doesn't make it fact."There is no real evidence for your simple fact. It might make sense, unless:- she actually didn't cheat- she actually didn't lie- she actually wasn't silent- she actually wasn't 5 minutes ahead of second placeThe one fact that is closest to having a basis in reality, is exaggerated (she was 4m30s ahead of second place).If you have to exaggerate the one fact, and make up the rest, maybe there is something fundamentally wrong with the conclusion.

pop_pop! wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

It's really a strange kind of logic to say that because other people lied, that Paula must be lying too.

And the simple fact she cheated, then lied and is completely silent, then finishes 5 minutes ahead of 2nd place means she's clean?

pop_pop! wrote:

And the simple fact she cheated, then lied and is completely silent, then finishes 5 minutes ahead of 2nd place means she's clean?

Look up "circular logic."

Jeff Wigand wrote:

pop_pop! wrote:

And the simple fact she cheated, then lied and is completely silent, then finishes 5 minutes ahead of 2nd place means she's clean?

Look up "circular logic."

Look up "effects of oxygen vector doping."

For the pedantics, 4:30. 4:30 ahead of the next runner.

pop_pop! wrote:

And the simple fact she cheated, then lied and is completely silent, then finishes 5 minutes ahead of 2nd place means she's clean?

[/quote]

My mistake, actually, this comment was for another doper's thread, not Ms. Radcliffe's.

As an almost comical update to Ms. Radcliffe's decision making paradigm, she is seeing "Healing Hans."

PR rained in Albuquerque with the rest of the PED users supplied by Dr. Leonid Shvetsov during the Eddy days. Once the good doctor moved on, nobody trains in Albuquerque any more, not even PR. Duke City was the elite training Mecca of the US during the winter because of the weather and moderate altitude. Interestingly, the weather and altitude somehow became less desirable, when the Shvetsov Pharmacy closed its doors.

Doosh N. Ozzle wrote:The extent of your argument is clear - you are from the UK, she is from the UK, therefore she is clean.

add Letsrun Rule: Nation identity = nationalism/biased/subjective judgement.

The Yanks are frustrated because Paula isn’t an American

Were she so, you wouldn’t hear a hint of drug abuse.

However, now it has become clear that the East Africans, which were previously naively believed to be clean, are as dirty as they come, thinking the unthinkable for a moment, that Paula took performance enhancing drugs, she is still the only white runner in the modern era to beat the performance enhancing drug taking Africans at their own game.

She’s something special no matter how you look at it.

Haters love to hate. That's all there is to it!~!!!!!

Binks wrote:

The Yanks are frustrated because Paula isn’t an American

Were she so, you wouldn’t hear a hint of drug abuse.

However, now it has become clear that the East Africans, which were previously naively believed to be clean, are as dirty as they come, thinking the unthinkable for a moment, that Paula took performance enhancing drugs, she is still the only white runner in the modern era to beat the performance enhancing drug taking Africans at their own game.

She’s something special no matter how you look at it.

So, doping is okay now? Great! Let's get your kid started on a program of HGH, Testosterone, and EPO. When does she get to do her own injections? How long are you in charge of the dosage? When does she get to take over? 18? 21 maybe?

What's that? Not your child! How dare I suggest such a horrible thing!!!

...

.....

.,....

But it's fine for some OTHER kid to be the subject of uncontrolled human experiments.

Which, is exactly what happened with Carmichael at USA Cycling, and before that, destroyed the lives of East German athletes. But, next time it will be different.

runDirtyrun wrote:

As an almost comical update to Ms. Radcliffe's decision making paradigm, she is seeing "Healing Hans."

So does almost everyone else. Nothing of note.

Binks wrote:

The Yanks are frustrated because Paula isn’t an American

Were she so, you wouldn’t hear a hint of drug abuse.

Ever heard of an Yank who goes by the name of Rupp? Ever read the threads on LR re Rupp?

rekrunner wrote:

It's really a strange kind of logic to say that because other people lied, that Paula must be lying too. To me it's like admitting you are not smart enough to see the difference. Paula is not Lance, Dieter Baumann, Carl Lewis, Marion Jones, nor Linford Christie.

"Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

I think you're reaching here. The whole premise of the thread was Paula's quote, which she is saying that she is clean and can look people in the eye and say it. So several have said that this is a meaningless claim because other known dopers have made the same claim. To say that she is lying because others are lying is a huge stretch. The point is that Paula's proclamation that she is clean has no value, not that she is lying because Lance lied.

Re Rupp wrote:

Binks wrote:

The Yanks are frustrated because Paula isn’t an American

Were she so, you wouldn’t hear a hint of drug abuse.

Ever heard of an Yank who goes by the name of Rupp? Ever read the threads on LR re Rupp?

This bloke, what’s his name - Rupp?

Has he run the three fastest ever times in history at his particular event?

Is that the best you can offer Yanks?

It's all about 'the list' who is on it and why had it disappeared from the press when the press know who is on it.