Honolulu Marathon radio coverage

long sox wrote:

silly old fossil wrote:

Or try this.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3785652

Something odd about this messageboard when you click on a link to another thread.

However, if you open up a new window or tab, them manually copy + paste the link it works.

Thanks, Long Sox. I got frustrated with it.

When you look at Sisay's racing credentials and you see him racing alongside his female athlete, then you know he is giving assistance...assistance doesn't just consist of handing over drinks.

One key reason the marathon majors went to the female only start was to prevent this very thing.

Berlin is a total sham in this regard IMHO.

So through out paula radcliff's world record?

silly old fossil wrote:

long sox wrote:

Something odd about this messageboard when you click on a link to another thread.

However, if you open up a new window or tab, them manually copy + paste the link it works.

Thanks, Long Sox. I got frustrated with it.

When you look at Sisay's racing credentials and you see him racing alongside his female athlete, then you know he is giving assistance...assistance doesn't just consist of handing over drinks.

One key reason the marathon majors went to the female only start was to prevent this very thing.

Berlin is a total sham in this regard IMHO.

Race Director, what are the ten fastest women's marathons?

How many of them have been run in women-only races?

I rest my case.

I think that is actually another issue anyway. When Paula was paced, the pacer was available to everyone. Also, the pacer was not handing water AND the pacer was not Paula's coach. I wish my coach could run alongside me for a full marathon. Comparing what happened in Honolulu, Crazy 8's, Big Sur, Wharf to Wharf, etc. to Paula's situation dilutes the gravity of what Sisay was doing. Monti, Reavis, etc. seem to understand this. One race director from an unknown race who likes to insult people and does not communicate with other race directors does not.

I didn't say what they did was right.. i just questioned the gravity assigned to the infraction.

People make mistakes- relax.

You are making far to big a deal over a misunderstanding.

Also, i agree that if someone got second place in a race where she recvd this assistance i would not like it... But some of the races in question were blow outs. Did Kelly or heather have a change..

1 Belainesh Gebre 1:09:43

2 Kelly Calway 1:18:16

3 Heather Gibson 1:18:41

4 Lisa Harvey 1:18:46

5 Mary Coordt 1:19:31

while some were closer.

If a runner wants to go to a race where they are a huge favorite and no one comes close... and if they want to set a pb - i don't think its a big deal that they get paced.

World records are paced. Pacing period is assistance and pacing with handing drinks is also assistance. We have drawn a line somewhere to say we are ok with the former and not with the latter. And it is easy for young athletes 21 and 22 to get carried away.

I honestly don't think this was deliberate. If i offended anyone.. sorry. Its just my opinion.

a few questions

1. didnt the frankfurt germany marathon have 1 or more pacers assigned to each elite athlete?

2. in the chicago marathon 1 year didnt deena kastor have a pacer the whole way, who in the last mile or 2 would keep slowing down to see how far constatina dita was behind and then he would catch up to tell, how much of a lead she had, dont remember any outcry there.

3. paula radcliffe absolutely had a pacer when she ran her 2:25 the runner pacing her was a kenyan with the last name lopuyot (i think that is how it is spelled) while radcliffe was running one of the greatest performances in running history, lopuyot was looking like he was out on an easy jog and he did look back lots of times to make sure radcliffe was still there and when he opened a small gap and he looked back and saw the gap he would clearly slow down.

4. also i am just curious why did the honolulu race director not allow gebre to have the priveleges of her competitors by having her own bottles at the marked tables the other elite runners had. i heard they would not even give her elite status, when she clearly had credentials of being a top runner in that race.

5. anyway enough of my sticking up for her, why not just let her run a marathon that has the women start 20-30 minutes before the men or women only race and lets see how she does, i think she will do quite well.

What about jos hermans giving kenenisa splits from the in field. he is not handing water.. but he is coaching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iQ_p8m9rMk

Does that cross the line?

I think it does. These africans are always crossing the line. We have to nip it in the bud.

Thanks for standing up to this outrageous event.

The other runners were not getting there splits read to them. Its an unfair advantage.

Africans are sneaky little buggers. If you give them an inch they will take a mile.

I don't think anyone could take offense to the fact that you don't think it was deliberate.

The insults you throw about are a different issue.

The bottom line (which you keep glossing over) is that they DO have a history of doing this and DO know it is wrong.

- Is there any other reason Sisay usually goes out with the men and then fakes an injury?

- Is there any other reason Sisay often drops out or finishes behind Gebre? (Keep in mind that Sisay is a 61 minute half guy).

Even if you do not believe they have been warned (and you could verify by calling some of the race directors for the races you mentioned) they still knew what they were doing was wrong.

Did it make a difference in Big Sur? Of course not. I had already said that, but it is convenient for you to focus on that race. Whether it made a difference, however, is not determinative of guilt or innocence.

It would not have been hard for Sisay to email the race director at Big Sur and say "can you nominate me as a pacer for the ladies? I will be running a 69 minute pace." He speaks English perfectly well.

Finally, you continue to draw some rather arbitrary lines in order to blur the REAL lines (i.e. the rules). Yes, pacing is "assistance." It is legal. So is wearing racing flats or spikes.

Taking drugs is also "assistance." Does that become ok by virtue of the fact that pacing is also "assistance"? No.

It's clear that you are standing up for Gebre and Sisay as people, and I respect that. However, that was never the issue here (although you have tried to blur those lines as well).

You are a classic case of misdirected and misinformed political correctness. I am sticking up for the OTHER Africans who DO NOT take liberties with the rules.

You're sarcasm does not suit you at all. You're not smart enough to pull it off well.

Douglas - not one of your points is relevant to the issue of cheating.

1. IF THEY DID have 1+ pacers assigned to each athlete (and I can't imagine they did) then that was their prerogative. It would have been done openly and transparently so that any of the athletes could take advantage of it.

2. YES, Deena had a pacer. People criticized her, but AGAIN it was open and transparent. The RD had authorized it before the race.

3. YES, Paula had a pacer. See above. Also, the pacer was NOT Paula's coach and did not hand her water bottles. Her 2:15 also has an * next to it for most people.

4. VIRTUALLY EVERY RACE turns down elite entries for runners who are "qualified" to be elites. The athletes actually do not mind that because none of the Kenyans want to get to a race and find 100 other Kenyans competing for 5 or 10 prize money places. Also, races have limited resources. Not every elite athlete who wants to run will be invited. That's just the way of the world.

5. OF COURSE she would run well in a women's only race or with a women's only start. She is a damn talented athlete and even in Honolulu she ran every step with her own two legs. That is irrelevant to the issue of whether what she did was right.

You guys are not sticking up for "her" because no one here is criticizing "her." She is a sweet person who wants to make money to support her family. That does not make what she did right or ethical. Sorry.

Thanks Doug.. for this info. It is an interesting topic. Its obvious that two cents has observed something that he doesn't like. He lives in the bay area.. and has witnessed it and i will give him kudos for bringing light to this topic. Now- establishing clear guidelines in technical meetings to make sure that things are on the up and up is important. Some race directors don't do that -I also recall Mikitenko being paced (without asking for it) she was pushing the kenyan away and telling him to go away. But the kenyan kept on pacing her.Sometimes things like this can happen in a race where the person is not even asking for it. Imagine if that happened in a race. i.e. she accepted water and got screwed.

"He lives in the Bay Area"?

Doug, with respect, I don't see this as an African issue. Personally, I see this as a clear cheating violation and would feel the same way if it was a lily-white girl with her frat boyfriend. The prize money differential is a big deal. I think she went to Honolulu with the clear intention of being paced. You don't think this is a possibility? If not, I hope you're on my jury if I'm ever on trial.

race director, apparently all of us except for you realize that she WAS asking for it- and being dq'd would NOT be "getting screwed", it would be someone standing up to unacceptably pushing the rules. why not just take the water and gatorade that is available to all runners? and before you try to jump on the "need" for elites to have their own bottles, i've won a mid level marathon and Q'd for the US oly trials on nothing more than water and gatorade from cups handed out by volunteers. didn't hurt me one bit. please enlighten all of us which race you direct so we can send our sig others to run, and pace them at the same time, ok? thanks.

"....where the person is not even asking for it. Imagine if that happened in a race. i.e. she accepted water and got screwed"

Here was the discussion when Kastor did it.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1059662

I wonder if she was warned.

sorry- link doesn't work

use the first link from the google search results below.

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=active&q=deena+kastor+pacing&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=c341562a61b59af3

I am writing an article for the next issue of Road Race Management about Gebre and Tsegaya, and am in the process of interviewing race directors, elite athlete coordinators, USATF officials and media about this situation. If you are a legitimate race director, and can provide me with good solid facts and information I can use and verify, please contact me via email. Thanks.

A lot of you are saying Gebre did nothing wrong...

BUT if she did, it wasn't intentional.

So, in your mind her conduct should be

excused or forgiven because she didn't mean to cheat.

You seem to equate it with talking yourself

out of something like a speeding ticket or

protesting what you feel is an unjust rule.

If you saw Dr. Barahal's interview with

the Honolulu TV station he said

he didn't want to ruin her life.

Instead he rewarded her with $40,000.00.

He just wanted to end the controversy,

make himself look good and ease his conscience.

Now, with hindsight and additional

information (Crazy 8's, Big Sur,

Wharf to Wharf) he is perpetuating

the controversy by passing the buck

on to the next race director.

Her defenders paint her as some

noble soul who's just trying to

earn an honest dollar, except

minus the honest part.

What Gebre has done is steal food

from the mouths of babes.

Yes, I said it...

If you saw the finish line

video from Crazy 8's Gebre

finished just ahead of Alice Timbilili.

Gebre was so wiped out she could barely

take another step after breaking

the tape, she is seen standing,

stumbling and staggering as if

looking for some guidance or direction.

The same thing happened in Honolulu.

If you saw that finish video

she tries to break through the tape

held by two Japan Air Lines flight attendants

and she can't cross the line until finally,

one of them lets go and she steps forward

across the finish line, standing,

stumbling and staggering.

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=13660006

http://www.asiorders.com/view_user_event_video.asp?EVENTID=60089&BIB=9670

Take Alice Timbilili, the Kenyan

woman who finished second behind

Gebre at Crazy 8's in TN back in July.

Alice is a mother and a runner

on par with Gebre. While Gebre

took the win and $4,000.00, Alice

had to settle for 2nd and only $2,000.00.

$2,000.00 would buy a lot of food for her children.

Alice actually has a faster 10km, Half and Full Marathon time.

Alice has also run the Honolulu Marathon course.

How about Alice comes and runs

Honolulu December 11th 2011 and brings

with her some Kenyan friends who can

casually run with her?

Maybe a phalanx of 5 men who can

run in a V formation ahead of her

to informally (unofficially) block the wind for her.

They can equip themselves with

utility belts for special fluids

so Alice doesn't have to bother

with stopping or slowing down

to grab something off the tables

at the water stops.

One of the Kenyan men can have

a fold-down tray on their back

that can carry sponges, gels

or whatever else may make

her race more "convenient".

Of course they will not hand

anything to her, because that

might be deemed assistance.

http://www.usatf.org/about/rules/2010/2010rules.pdf

Rule #241(1)(d) on page 148

If Gebre finishes second it will be

her right to file a formal written

complaint protesting what she witnessed

and deemed as an unfair advantage.

See you in Honolulu 12-11-2011!

Or is it sense?

Wharf to Wharf

only earned her three thousand dollars

and there is Sisay in her

marathonfoto pictures

www.marathonfoto.com/

dreds and the blue shoes

just ahead of her

Select the race

Wharf to Wharf Race 2010

she was listed in the race

results with the last name

Zemedkun, so type that in

and you have to type in her

number, 11 to get her pictures.

To see pictures of him

doing his thing,

type in his last name Sisay and 7.

In the Santa Cruz Sentinel story...

"Gebre said she ran with one of the male Ethiopian runners to maintain a good pace and time."

She won three grand

one week after winning four grand

at Crazy 8's.

Yeah, she's just a struggling

road racer with her own personal

pacer, assistant, coach.

But wait, what's this?

He ran, but is nowhere to be

found in the race results...

http://www.wharftowharf.com/

He has the darndest luck,

she wins, he fails to finish.

What are the odds?