No, he can’t specialize in whatever he wants. Either he’s 400/800m, or he’s not. Specific training won’t change genetics. Based on the WA points table, 1:42.2 is equivalent to 3:45.5, so 4:00 is not otherworldly in comparison.
Why would this have been down voted? Everything I said was correct. Bolt 100/200, wouldn’t have been nearly as good at 400m, noted businessman Michael Johnson, 200/400m, would have sucked at 800m and Juantorena 400/800m, ran a 3:44.
Many people believe any runner can move up in distance, but it’s no easier than moving down. That Lutkenhaus has 400-1500m range is unlikely and when he’s in 1:42 fitness he’s in a position to run as fast he possibly can at any other distance. Do people think that if he bumped his mileage to 40 mpw and ran XC, he would slow down to 1:44, but gain 5 seconds in the 1500m? People have cited his 4:06 mile, but he didn’t win that race even though he probably had at least 1:45 fitness at the time.
Your post is downvoted because you are ignoring the potential he’s already shown. As I pointed, he’s already displayed elite ability in the mile despite 1) not training for it and 2) only having 1 attempt.
Secondly, Brandon Miller split 44.8 indoors at Texas A&M and ran 3:35. Miller’s entire career up until recently he was looking like a sprint focused 800m guy with no strength and even he ran 3:35.
Lastly, you taking Hoey over Cooper, lifetime? At 1500m?
Cooper doesn't need to worry about the 1500/mile. He is an 800 runner with powerful sprint gears. Does he look like El G to ya'll? No. He has shoulders and will likely only get more muscular. Everybody here loves the 1500 but not all athletes should just move up! I hope Cooper doesn't bother with it. Bol moved up and is now hurt. Let Cooper run 1:41 and 44 high on his 30 something miles a week being potentially the most talented male 800 runner we've seen.
I don't think he should move up, just that once he's dominant in the 800, he'll want to do doubles and I think he's going to be better suited for the 800/1500 double than the 400/800 double
People are eager to categorize 800 standouts as either 4/8 or 8/15, but there’s actually no reason someone can’t be equally strong in both (and stronger at 600, 800, 1000). World Athletics gives 1200 points to both 44.7 and 3:33.2 respectively, and that’s a lot like Rudisha was probably capable of at his 2010-2012 best, combining Eliud Kipchoge’s 1500 PB with Kenny Bednarek’s 400 PB to be the fastest 800 guy we’ve ever seen.
Yeah he's neither, but at some point he'll choose to do a double, the question is which one.
Cooper doesn't need to worry about the 1500/mile. He is an 800 runner with powerful sprint gears. Does he look like El G to ya'll? No. He has shoulders and will likely only get more muscular. Everybody here loves the 1500 but not all athletes should just move up! I hope Cooper doesn't bother with it. Bol moved up and is now hurt. Let Cooper run 1:41 and 44 high on his 30 something miles a week being potentially the most talented male 800 runner we've seen.
No one is saying he would switch events. He's obviously an out of this world 800m runner.
Still, he can very likely run the fastest 1500m ever run by a HSer before he graduates. Currently 3:34.36.
A high school best in an off event is not significant compared to what he's already accomplished, nevermind what's to come. And for the record I actually don't see a 3:34 as 'very likely', or at all likely. That would put him faster than Brazier, Brandon Miller, Hoppel, Clayton Murphy, Symmonds. Cooper is showing indications of more raw speed than all these guys which if anything probably means his mile ability is less. And it matters not AT ALL because that's not his event.
I don't see Cooper as having particular mile ability compared to 400-1k ability. He time trialed a mile this winter and again ran 4:06. His mile is actually particularly slow for a 1:42 800 guy so I don't get all the excitement around him running the mile. 1:42 is one of the greatest times in the world. 4:06 is not winning some state championships or likely making d2 All American. I think people are missing the forest through the trees being obsessed with Cooper running a mile when he's doing what he's doing in the 800 and below. The obsession is honestly bizarre to me.
No one is saying he would switch events. He's obviously an out of this world 800m runner.
Still, he can very likely run the fastest 1500m ever run by a HSer before he graduates. Currently 3:34.36.
A high school best in an off event is not significant compared to what he's already accomplished, nevermind what's to come. And for the record I actually don't see a 3:34 as 'very likely', or at all likely. That would put him faster than Brazier, Brandon Miller, Hoppel, Clayton Murphy, Symmonds. Cooper is showing indications of more raw speed than all these guys which if anything probably means his mile ability is less. And it matters not AT ALL because that's not his event.
I don't see Cooper as having particular mile ability compared to 400-1k ability. He time trialed a mile this winter and again ran 4:06. His mile is actually particularly slow for a 1:42 800 guy so I don't get all the excitement around him running the mile. 1:42 is one of the greatest times in the world. 4:06 is not winning some state championships or likely making d2 All American. I think people are missing the forest through the trees being obsessed with Cooper running a mile when he's doing what he's doing in the 800 and below. The obsession is honestly bizarre to me.
Why do I get downvoted for saying the same thing. His 1:42 is the 4th fastest American 800m of all-time and 4:06 probably isn’t in the top 2000.
Ingebrigtsen has the highest WA points score in the distance races of 1320 for his 7:17.55 3000m. A 1:38 comes to 1397, and if someone is a mere mortal, it’s not going to happen. The strongest distance runners will slow down to their 400m time, plus 4 seconds, for an 800m. For Lutkenhaus, 6 seconds will be tough land at that spread, he would need to be capable of 43:00.
I think he can do a 1:38.9 with a 43.5 400
Right. You should take another look at Rudisha’s WR.
I'm surprised no one has brought up the Mu comparison. Phenomenal 400 runner, AR holder in the 800 and Gold medalist, and finished top 3 at the 1500 in one of her first few attempts. The 1500 was clearly her weakest event. She is also clearly a 400/800 phenom. But also can clearly hold her own nationally in the 1500. I would imagine Cooper is not dissimilar... though further back in the 1500 given the USA is the best in the world. Webb was also bigger and had 46 second speed in HS, so maybe I'm not giving him his due. Would be fun to see... just like an all out 400 would be fun to see.
I'm surprised no one has brought up the Mu comparison. Phenomenal 400 runner, AR holder in the 800 and Gold medalist, and finished top 3 at the 1500 in one of her first few attempts. The 1500 was clearly her weakest event. She is also clearly a 400/800 phenom. But also can clearly hold her own nationally in the 1500. I would imagine Cooper is not dissimilar... though further back in the 1500 given the USA is the best in the world. Webb was also bigger and had 46 second speed in HS, so maybe I'm not giving him his due. Would be fun to see... just like an all out 400 would be fun to see.
Athing Mu was an outlier of 1. Nobody else, male or female, has had the ability to run on the USA 4x400 and also make a 1500 team. The fact that she did it should not set expectations there.
I think we are much more likely to see Cooper on a US 4x400 one day than making a 1500 team. He probably could have run the relay at this World Championships.
A high school best in an off event is not significant compared to what he's already accomplished, nevermind what's to come. And for the record I actually don't see a 3:34 as 'very likely', or at all likely. That would put him faster than Brazier, Brandon Miller, Hoppel, Clayton Murphy, Symmonds. Cooper is showing indications of more raw speed than all these guys which if anything probably means his mile ability is less. And it matters not AT ALL because that's not his event.
I don't see Cooper as having particular mile ability compared to 400-1k ability. He time trialed a mile this winter and again ran 4:06. His mile is actually particularly slow for a 1:42 800 guy so I don't get all the excitement around him running the mile. 1:42 is one of the greatest times in the world. 4:06 is not winning some state championships or likely making d2 All American. I think people are missing the forest through the trees being obsessed with Cooper running a mile when he's doing what he's doing in the 800 and below. The obsession is honestly bizarre to me.
Why do I get downvoted for saying the same thing. His 1:42 is the 4th fastest American 800m of all-time and 4:06 probably isn’t in the top 2000.
First, he hasn’t run a mile since being 1:42 guy so it’s not an equivalent comparison.
Secondly, he would be ranked a lot lower at 400 than his 800 ranking as well.
Lastly, It’s not which event is best event, it’s what is his potential in off events.
Most of us to seem think he can the best ever, or on a short list, at 800m. But we think he can be world class at 1500m given the talent he’s shown.
No one is saying he would switch events. He's obviously an out of this world 800m runner.
Still, he can very likely run the fastest 1500m ever run by a HSer before he graduates. Currently 3:34.36.
A high school best in an off event is not significant compared to what he's already accomplished, nevermind what's to come. And for the record I actually don't see a 3:34 as 'very likely', or at all likely. That would put him faster than Brazier, Brandon Miller, Hoppel, Clayton Murphy, Symmonds. Cooper is showing indications of more raw speed than all these guys which if anything probably means his mile ability is less. And it matters not AT ALL because that's not his event.
I don't see Cooper as having particular mile ability compared to 400-1k ability. He time trialed a mile this winter and again ran 4:06. His mile is actually particularly slow for a 1:42 800 guy so I don't get all the excitement around him running the mile. 1:42 is one of the greatest times in the world. 4:06 is not winning some state championships or likely making d2 All American. I think people are missing the forest through the trees being obsessed with Cooper running a mile when he's doing what he's doing in the 800 and below. The obsession is honestly bizarre to me.
Saying 4:06 is slow for a 1:42 guy isn't really fair to Cooper. 4:06 is slow for a professional 800 guy that is aged 20 to 25 maybe. Cooper's only run like one official mile in his whole high school career, and 4:06 is otherworldly for a 16 year old in any country on the planet. He's definitely leveled up these days. If you put him in Pre B mile or a just a high level college meet, he's almost guaranteed a sub 4 this year.
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
Everyone is trying to be rational and compare him to other runners. When he ran 142.2 after rounds closing like a steam train at 16 there was nothing rational or comparable. No one predicted that last spring and would be called out as foolish if they did. I am still saying he runs 139/ 324 in ten years. He’s one of one, maybe the best we will see in our lifetime. Enjoy the ride.
No one is saying he would switch events. He's obviously an out of this world 800m runner.
Still, he can very likely run the fastest 1500m ever run by a HSer before he graduates. Currently 3:34.36.
A high school best in an off event is not significant compared to what he's already accomplished, nevermind what's to come. And for the record I actually don't see a 3:34 as 'very likely', or at all likely. That would put him faster than Brazier, Brandon Miller, Hoppel, Clayton Murphy, Symmonds. Cooper is showing indications of more raw speed than all these guys which if anything probably means his mile ability is less. And it matters not AT ALL because that's not his event.
I don't see Cooper as having particular mile ability compared to 400-1k ability. He time trialed a mile this winter and again ran 4:06. His mile is actually particularly slow for a 1:42 800 guy so I don't get all the excitement around him running the mile. 1:42 is one of the greatest times in the world. 4:06 is not winning some state championships or likely making d2 All American. I think people are missing the forest through the trees being obsessed with Cooper running a mile when he's doing what he's doing in the 800 and below. The obsession is honestly bizarre to me.
Well, we disagree on his 1500m potential over the next 15mos. I believe 3:34.26 is fairly likely assuming the training is tweaked with that goal in mind. Also, I never mentioned the mile. Not once. As an 800/1000 type guy, the 1500m is very reachable. Many great 800/1000 types bridge up to 1500m. A guy who can get under 1:42.00 (I believe that is coming) should be able to dip under 3:35flat. You may feel differently.
Again, no one is talking about changing events. Lutkenhaus will be an 800 guy primarily. That said, He should get the indoor WR at 1000m and dip under the HSR at 1500m before he graduates in June 2027.
A high school best in an off event is not significant compared to what he's already accomplished, nevermind what's to come. And for the record I actually don't see a 3:34 as 'very likely', or at all likely. That would put him faster than Brazier, Brandon Miller, Hoppel, Clayton Murphy, Symmonds. Cooper is showing indications of more raw speed than all these guys which if anything probably means his mile ability is less. And it matters not AT ALL because that's not his event.
I don't see Cooper as having particular mile ability compared to 400-1k ability. He time trialed a mile this winter and again ran 4:06. His mile is actually particularly slow for a 1:42 800 guy so I don't get all the excitement around him running the mile. 1:42 is one of the greatest times in the world. 4:06 is not winning some state championships or likely making d2 All American. I think people are missing the forest through the trees being obsessed with Cooper running a mile when he's doing what he's doing in the 800 and below. The obsession is honestly bizarre to me.
Well, we disagree on his 1500m potential over the next 15mos. I believe 3:34.26 is fairly likely assuming the training is tweaked with that goal in mind. Also, I never mentioned the mile. Not once. As an 800/1000 type guy, the 1500m is very reachable. Many great 800/1000 types bridge up to 1500m. A guy who can get under 1:42.00 (I believe that is coming) should be able to dip under 3:35flat. You may feel differently.
Again, no one is talking about changing events. Lutkenhaus will be an 800 guy primarily. That said, He should get the indoor WR at 1000m and dip under the HSR at 1500m before he graduates in June 2027.
As was previously stated here, Seb Coe rarely ran the 1500, like once a year every year for 4 years before he eventually broke the 1500 WR. Cooper's got a lot of time and upside to be a world class in the mile.
Well, we disagree on his 1500m potential over the next 15mos. I believe 3:34.26 is fairly likely assuming the training is tweaked with that goal in mind. Also, I never mentioned the mile. Not once. As an 800/1000 type guy, the 1500m is very reachable. Many great 800/1000 types bridge up to 1500m. A guy who can get under 1:42.00 (I believe that is coming) should be able to dip under 3:35flat. You may feel differently.
Again, no one is talking about changing events. Lutkenhaus will be an 800 guy primarily. That said, He should get the indoor WR at 1000m and dip under the HSR at 1500m before he graduates in June 2027.
As was previously stated here, Seb Coe rarely ran the 1500, like once a year every year for 4 years before he eventually broke the 1500 WR. Cooper's got a lot of time and upside to be a world class in the mile.
But Seb ran cross country and was a 3k runner before moving down to the 800m
No, he can’t specialize in whatever he wants. Either he’s 400/800m, or he’s not. Specific training won’t change genetics. Based on the WA points table, 1:42.2 is equivalent to 3:45.5, so 4:00 is not otherworldly in comparison.
Why would this have been down voted? Everything I said was correct. Bolt 100/200, wouldn’t have been nearly as good at 400m, noted businessman Michael Johnson, 200/400m, would have sucked at 800m and Juantorena 400/800m, ran a 3:44.
Many people believe any runner can move up in distance, but it’s no easier than moving down. That Lutkenhaus has 400-1500m range is unlikely and when he’s in 1:42 fitness he’s in a position to run as fast he possibly can at any other distance. Do people think that if he bumped his mileage to 40 mpw and ran XC, he would slow down to 1:44, but gain 5 seconds in the 1500m? People have cited his 4:06 mile, but he didn’t win that race even though he probably had at least 1:45 fitness at the time.
Well, Bolt was on the cover of Track and Field News when he was 16. The cover said "Usain Bolt: The Next Great Long Sprinter?" because he was a 200/400 guy at the time. But 400 training hurts like hell and the rest is history. I believe Bolt would have been the first guy under 43 seconds if he had focused on the 400.
As was previously stated here, Seb Coe rarely ran the 1500, like once a year every year for 4 years before he eventually broke the 1500 WR. Cooper's got a lot of time and upside to be a world class in the mile.
But Seb ran cross country and was a 3k runner before moving down to the 800m
Cooper also ran XC and clocked a 9:26 3200 with hardly any aerobic focus whatsoever with a 4:06 mile at 16/10th grade. I think he's right where Seb was just more speed and less real aerobic focus at 16. His upside is scary.
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
Everyone is trying to be rational and compare him to other runners. When he ran 142.2 after rounds closing like a steam train at 16 there was nothing rational or comparable. No one predicted that last spring and would be called out as foolish if they did. I am still saying he runs 139/ 324 in ten years. He’s one of one, maybe the best we will see in our lifetime. Enjoy the ride.
It’s very unlikely he’ll run 1:39/3:24. That’s 2 seconds faster than Rudisha and almost 3 ahead of Ingebrigtsen. If he could maintain that level of performance from 800 to 1500m, he will be capable of sub-12:30. If it’s going to happen, it will probably be within 5 years and not 10. Any increment after that will be marginal.
It’s very unlikely he’ll run 1:39/3:24. That’s 2 seconds faster than Rudisha and almost 3 ahead of Ingebrigtsen. If he could maintain that level of performance from 800 to 1500m, he will be capable of sub-12:30. If it’s going to happen, it will probably be within 5 years and not 10. Any increment after that will be marginal.
I don’t think he’ll run 1:39 and 3:24 either but being capable of those would not mean someone is capable of sub-12:30.
You're disrespecting how big the jump from 800 to 1500 is.
The all-time 1500m list is not full of a bunch of 800m guys. Look at the top 20 (chose that so we can include Sir Mo). It's full of guys who competed or won 3k/5k/10k WC/OG golds. Or set 2 mile or 3k world records. Or who are 1500m specialist with a few VERY good, but not great, 800m time to their name (i.e. Mahk Daddy, Ngeny).
Just like the all-time 600m list indoors is not full of a bunch of 400m runners. When Hoey set the 600i record earlier this year, everyone was like "oh it's bc his speed is better that Brazier, Hoppel, etc". No it's not. If superior speed mattered, it would have been broken by some 44s 400i guy. It was set by Hoey because he is as fast as those 800m guys in terms of raw speed, AND he dogwalked Brazier & Hoppel last summer running a 3:29 1500m AND in early in 2026 in Hawaii at that road mile. Superior endurance led to the record.
Its not the speed that kills morans, it's the strength. Suggesting he can just "try it out" and run 3:24 is ridiculous & ignoring all the data. Zero data to suggest he has that endurance capacity that the current top 20 1500m guys have.
Who knows for sure...yet.
But it's not disrespectful to the world's top 1500/milers to say he could have that range. Lutkenhaus ran a 4:06 1600 as a Sophomore!!...which is faster than Hocker ran in High School period and faster than Hobbs Kessler ran until his Senior year in HS. It's also significantly faster than Josh Hoey ran in High School. These three athletes have 3:27, 3:29 and 3:29 PRs as pros but Lutkenhaus is already faster than them at the same age in an off event for him.
No disrespect. Just facts.
Yes it’s facts but he also ran much better times in the 4 and 8, suggesting he is a 4/8 runner. That’s more relevant than what his mile was at age 16 compared to 8/15 or 15/5K guys (at age 16) who were on a different developmental trajectory (and who isn’t lol).
does anyone think Arop is a good comp? Both taller than the average mid distance guys (cooper is like 2 inch shorter but he's likely still gonna get taller) and built more like a sprinter. Arop also has a 46 low 400 PB (though he probably could've gone faster), with 3:35 in the 1500 and 3:57 mile while all the time focusing on the 800. wouldn't surprise me at all if cooper can run 3:35 and 3:57 while focusing on the 8 (idk if he could do 1:11 half like Arop though).