Another Kenyan banned

Why was the "King of Physics" banned by Rojo, yet he has never taken any action against Rekrunner?

The biggest apologist on the board he is. He must have connections.

Surely even you must be able to comprehend that 173 ADRVs out of 34,576 samples tested (0.5%) is not quite as bad as 172 ADRVs out of 930 samples tested (18.5%).

You allege that it is WADA who makes a main point, but I have only seen your own recollection of what you think WADA said.

I didn't say that.

I posted the wrong link. Here's what I meant to post:

en.m.wikipedia.org

Survivorship bias

Survivorship bias or survival bias is the logical error of concentrating on entities that passed a selection process while overlooking those that did not. This can lead to incorrect conclusions because of incomplete data. Sur...

Open link

What we see is a bunch of Kenya's B-level runners getting busted. What we don't see is whether Kenya's top runners are doping and the same for top runners of other countries. They could be using something else like HIF stabilizers and avoiding detection.

2:07 B-level, nice. Only 7 Americans have ever run under 2:08. He would have been 2nd best American in 2024.

You ask "whether Kenya's top runners are doping"? Naturally even Kenya has more 2:07 than 2:00 or 2:01 runners, so the numbers may be tilted. Plus even so, the answer is yes, see here for busted Kenya's top runners, including world record holders:

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=13071597

The top runners are protectd because “…muh poor Africans.” Certain people fewl they have to throw them some bones.

Look up detection of molidustat compared to WADA's lab standards and procedures, and you'll see it's nearly impossible to catch someone with a good doctor.

Also, 2 of the newer HIF stabilizers are not tested for.

High altitude inhabitants don't need a hypoxia inducing factor -- altitude is a natural one.

Because regardless of your opinion on rek's posts he stays on topic while that other guy spams countless threads with useless carp.

"Detective P" didn't ask "whether Kenya's top runners are doping". But it's clear that some do.

For an American, he would be a top-10 runner -- like Leonard Korir. But not so much for a Kenyan. America is a bad example. In Japan, he would be about top-60. In Europe, he would be about top-70.

Earlier in the thread, he was called a C-level runner (as opposed to sea-level). Earlier, I also wrote:

According to World Athletics, this 30-year old 2:07:56/2:07:58 Kenyan marathon runner would rank about #300 in Kenya all-time (with a top-900 performance), and about #700 in the world, just slipping in the top-1900 performances.

In 2024/2025, he is a top-80 Kenyan (#114 performance) and #238 worldwide (#341 performance).

have none of you had a cortisone injection for an injury before? Stuff makes you feel high for like a month afterwards. Similar feeling to methamphetamine but without the comedown.

I didn't comment on "Survivorship Bias" but that is a good link. While it is tempting to count how many Kenyans are banned, and attempt to draw general doping prevalence conclusions from the high numbers, it is easy to overlook that testing and banning is not uniform across all athletes.

Anti-doping bodies have limited funds, and tend to strategically prioritize the fastest athletes, both in-competition and certainly out-of-competition. If certain athletes are over-represented among the fastest runners, (e.g. East Africans for distance, and West Africans for sprints), they will be selected more often for more testing. But their may be several non-doping reasons some groups are faster (e.g. growing up at a sweet-spot altitude for distance running). The 2:20 runners (male) tempted to dope are not likely to be tested, unless they make the podium in some low key marathon.

Recall when I counted "faster than 1990" athletes, Kenyans outnumbered non-Africans worldwide by about a factor of 7, in events from 1500m to the marathon, over a period of nearly three decades from 1990 to 2018. It is absurd to think that Kenya was outdoping the Americas and Europe and Oceania and Asia, including Russia and India and all the Eastern Bloc nations, by a factor of 7, especially when we know that altitude is a significant factor in distance running.

A lot of Kenyans have been busted for EPO despite living at around 7,000 feet elevation.

Ummm what now? Going off topic with useless carp (see here rek's unsolicited and useless comments about Shelburrito's ATF and his pre/post 1990 "data") and provocative questions and personal attacks are rek's trademarks.

Yes, a classic non sequitur: having something does not mean having more can't advantageous. In this case for example, you can live at 7,000 feet and add EPO to simulate being at 10,000 feet. That's also off topic of course, but rekrunner loves talking about altitude.

Not a very neutral observation.

It was "do the research unbiased please" who went off-topic with Houlihan. My reply was directly responsive to a suggestion about my primary interests in Houlihan's case.

Similarly my pre/post 1990 data comment was directly responsive to a comment about the doping we see, and don't see, from top-Kenyan runners as a whole.

My questions are designed to provoke thought, and the few personal attacks are simply returning just a tiny fraction of the personal attacks I receive.

I'm not persuaded it is "a lot", but in any case, that doesn't mean they needed it, or as was suggested, that more would be better.

You keep talking about the untestability of HIF-stabilizers and metabolic modulators, but you forget to say why that would be relevant to top marathon performance, or in this case the performances of a sub-2:08 marathon runner, assuming he even took what you say we couldn't see.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Calculating the optimal hematocrit under the constraint of constant cardiac power - PubMed

In humans and higher animals, a trade-off between sufficiently high erythrocyte concentrations to bind oxygen and sufficiently low blood viscosity to allow rapid blood flow has been achieved during evolution. Optimal hematocr...

Open link

Compare that with natural hematocrit of various ethnicities living at altitude and consider detrimental effect of hypoxia on mitochondria adaptations through training.

HIF stabilizers -> natural EPO and VEGF

Metabolic modulators -> mitochondria adaptations

Look at WADA's threshold limits document. The AICAR research is missing.

Look at molidustat curve and WADA lab requirements. And 2 HIF stabilizers are missing.