Official: Eliud Kipchoge Appreciation and GOAT Thread

This is ridiculous. The Olympics are an afterthought when it comes to the marathon. If you're willing to make an exception for cycling then you should be willing to make an exception for the marathon since the same logic implies

Khanouchi set the world best twice in the marathon and beat Haile G and Tergat in London when Tergat had the half marathon record and Haile the 5 and the 10. As great as Kipchoge is he has not set a world best or won Olympic gold. So why would he be ahead of Khanouchi? Nope wejo he is only the best at the moment.

I agree that it is between these four runners.

I think Kipchoge is clearly better than Mutai and Kipsang. Not leaps and bounds, but better. His body of work as a marathoner is essentially flawless, including only one loss to a world record performance by someone else on this list. And had today's race been on the Berlin course, it would have smashed the world record. Absolutely brilliant.

Comparing him to Wanjiru.... I don't know. That would largely be speculation on what could have been. Objectively, Wanjiru's career as a marathon ranks behind the other 3.

As for greatest performance, Wanjiru's Olympics, Mutai's NY run, and today's performance are surely the top 3 of all time. Each of the 3 was staggering; I just can't choose one!

Salad for lunch wrote:

... So why would he be ahead of Khanouchi? .....

2:03:05

Yes for top marathoner.

I watched the 2003 and 2004 races. It was amazing to see the same 2 guys 13 years later still going at it. I am so glad I stayed up late to watch the race. We expected great things and we sure got them.

NativeSon wrote:

Oh,

"my bad"!

I totally forgot about my boy Sammy.

I think Kipchoge could beat the sammy of 2008 and '09.

Just my thoughts.

We'll never know.

You did a bad.

Rupp has a 10% chance of medaling at best based off of what we saw today in London.

Bigtool05 wrote:

This is ridiculous. The Olympics are an afterthought when it comes to the marathon. If you're willing to make an exception for cycling then you should be willing to make an exception for the marathon since the same logic implies

That's the whole point, "the same logic" doesn't apply (I'm assuming you meant applies if you didn't then it still stands, the same logic doesn't apply). An Olympic gold medal in the marathon counts, big time.

Whether he is the best ever his legacy will tell, for sure he is the SMARTEST guy out there. You guys have noticed how long he keeps his drinks so that he gets ALL the fluids he needs. Yesterday we timed it at some point and he held his bottle for a shade under 5'....

That's the whole point. wrote:

Bigtool05 wrote:

This is ridiculous. The Olympics are an afterthought when it comes to the marathon. If you're willing to make an exception for cycling then you should be willing to make an exception for the marathon since the same logic implies

That's the whole point, "the same logic" doesn't apply (I'm assuming you meant applies if you didn't then it still stands, the same logic doesn't apply). An Olympic gold medal in the marathon counts, big time.

I agree, an Olympic win is essential for true greatness. There is a huge difference between winning a championship race when they are often run in hot conditions at inappropriate times of the year without pacemakers and a paced run on a fast course in cool conditions. How long did the pacer keep going at the weekend? I'm not putting down what Kipchoge did, but for all round greatness you need to win in a range of situations.

Amen to that. Kipchoge is certainly a great runner and pull out one of the greatest race ever in the history of marathon , but I won't call him the GOAT unless he wins the Olympic and breaks the world record.

That's the whole point. wrote:

Bigtool05 wrote:

This is ridiculous. The Olympics are an afterthought when it comes to the marathon. If you're willing to make an exception for cycling then you should be willing to make an exception for the marathon since the same logic implies

That's the whole point, "the same logic" doesn't apply (I'm assuming you meant applies if you didn't then it still stands, the same logic doesn't apply). An Olympic gold medal in the marathon counts, big time.

The same logic applies because world marathon majors are more important than the olympics, just like the tours are more important than the olympics in cycling. Pretty simple.

I also don't like those kind of absolute statements. "You need an Olympic gold to be the marathon GOAT". Why? Why couldn't your times and performances in world marathon majors, which are generally more competitive than the olympics anyway, trump your Olympic record? I mean do you actually think that it's impossible to be the GOAT without an Olympic gold? What if someone is undefeated in 20 marathon majors including course records at Chicago, New York, Berlin, and London, plus three world records? Would they not be the GOAT even without an Olympic gold? Are you really that absolutist about this?

Someone has already mentioned it - it is about the range.

To win an Olympic, you need to have the ability to endure the heat, which makes it a whole lot different from any other major races.

And of course the honor is also so unique that an Olympic gold medal is just indispensable for being the GOAT.

He has not won a world title at the marathon so is not the GOAT for the distance

Bring Back the 880 wrote:

I think it is a toss up between Kipsang, Sammy, Kipchoge, and G. Mutai.

I don't know why Martin Lel doesn't even get a mention in this context...

He may not *be* the greatest marathoner ever, but that's a pretty impressive palmares for not even being mentioned.

I usually do not agree with many things said on this forum, as there is not a lot of support to back the opinions. However, on this one, I completely agree. In fact, I would also go as far as to say that Eliud Kipchoge is the best pure running athlete our generation has ever seen or will ever see.

My first exposure to witnessing the greatness of Kipchoge was in seeing the elites run several years ago at the Carlsbad 5000. The natural, gliding running form that Kipchoge had was simply amazing.

Later, when it was announced that Eliud would be running marathons, I knew he would do well because his running form (and, thus, economy) was priceless and almost adaptable to any distance. Then, on the internet, watching a race finish by the then 18-year-old Kipchoge, in seeing that sprint finish in a 5K, I knew he was capable fo anything.

I am glad to see this for Eliud. He has my vote for greatest of all time, and this spans decades. Sure, he is the best in the modern era, in my opinion, and his times show it, but in making such a successful transition from 5K to marathon, he solidifies this. There's nobody better than Eliud Kipchoge right now.

Yes, incredible range, 3:50.40 Mile to 2:03:05 Marathon (best combo ever, just passed the great Haile Gebrselassie) to Olympic and World Championship medals (track and XC).

See:

http://bringbackthemile.com/news/detail/select_group_only_20_men_have_gone_sub_4_and_sub_210

Kipchoge has definitely entered the conversation of "greatest range" to be sure. Typically it comes down to Aouita (1:43.8 to 27:26 10k (in one try)) and Geb with 3:31i to 2:03:59.

Kipchoge has a 3:33 1500 and 3:50 mile on low end and of course 2:03 flat at marathon.

At this point I still have to give it to Geb, and barely, for two reasons: Geb has faster times all the way up to marathon, and Geb's marathon was his second WR and it was done very late in his career.

Kipchoge of course has never had a bad marathon, which Geb had several.

Very hard to say. Aouita very impressive, doping or not. But all the speculation in the world as to what he may have been able to do at > 10000 does not matter. Same for Webb.