Mary Cain does her easy days in 6:30....Whaaaat !?!?!?

kdkdk wrote:

Nowiknow wrote:

Elites run around 7 min miles on easy days! I know plenty that run slower than that! My say, run how the body feels on that given recovery day, good luck if she can keep that up for awhile

Some of you are really having trouble reading my post. Easy days and recovery days are not the same thing.

...you are extremely stubborn.

Your definition of "easy run" may be different from some others, but it really doesn't matter as it relates to my post. My training runs (read HARDER than easy days) were done at a SLOWER pace than 6:30. I was an elite high school runner so your point has been disproven. Maybe you will learn not to make blanket statements regarding what ALL elite runners do or don't do in the future.

We do something similar at our HS. During the base phase, we focus on pace since we don't have "hard" workouts. The girls try to hit base mileage close to 90s over their mile date pace. A 5:30 miler would run close to 7 min/mile. For a Mary Cain, this would be closer to 6:00 pace assuming no workouts are being done. The reason why we do this is to become better aerobically during our off-seasons. This pushes the pace a bit (I call it "focused pace") but it is slower than they can handle cruise reps or tempo runs.

My gut feeling is that she is doing some training for a big indoor meet, so her easier days are probably closer to 2 min over mile time. That would put her near 6:30.

I don't think it is unreasonable. The Texas elite girls typically run mid-6s on daily runs and they produce 17-mid 5k XC times and they could probably run 16-something on a track.

Other point....

Regarding base mileage being relatively faster for women with equal PRs to men....

I think this is the case because of how they have to arrive at that PR. Think about it - two 15:00 5k runners, one man and one woman. The man is likely better in the 400, 800, and mile off of genetics alone. So the woman had to arrive at that PR due to superior aerobic development. What reflects aerobic development? Daily pace is part of that. Just a thought.

Lawguy wrote:

kdkdk wrote:

Some of you are really having trouble reading my post. Easy days and recovery days are not the same thing.

...you are extremely stubborn.

Your definition of "easy run" may be different from some others, but it really doesn't matter as it relates to my post. My training runs (read HARDER than easy days) were done at a SLOWER pace than 6:30. I was an elite high school runner so your point has been disproven. Maybe you will learn not to make blanket statements regarding what ALL elite runners do or don't do in the future.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The only thing you have proven is that you are dumb. You're saying that your hard days were done at slower than 6:30 pace when you were in 14:30 5k shape? That's a load of crap. The only thing harder than an easy run is a tempo/steady state run. Tempo pace for a 14:30 runner is under 6 minutes.

You're either lying, have forgotten your true times, or were massively overtrained in high school. You pick.

Lawguy. You are being trolled. Let it go

SMJO wrote:

Women do seem to be able to do general running at a faster pace than comparable men.

Ken Martin used to complain when his wife ran too fast for him.

When Mottram ran with Benita Johnson he had the same problem.

When DeCastella came to town and wanted an easy run he targeted 9 minutes plus. Easy means easy.

Rest is very important.

let it go wrote:

Lawguy. You are being trolled. Let it go

So you're saying that 6:30 is tempo pace for a 14:30 5k runner?

Too much slogging. She needs to drop Alberto Salazar as her coach and get Brian Mackenzie. He is the best running coach in the country and would take her to the next level.

Can we narrow this down? Is she running 630 pace during base phase and early training blocks, or are these 630 runs in the middle of peak training. I've heard similiar information regarding rupp and farah who run no slower than 6 pace for their training runs.

My question is if this pace dictates their training runs where is the value? It's much easier to fathom that these are goal paces for early training, but if they are year round training run goal paces (including peak training of high intensity workouts) it goes against practical knowledge. If these paces are easy that's a different story, however, if the athletes are having to push themselves to maintain these paces how does that benefit quality workouts? is it worth the trade-off?

After all these athletes are human, bad days have a way of rearing their heads, days where even very slow paces don't feel comfortable, and all this without mentioning the prodigiuous volume his athletes manage each week.

Salazar should really bring some clarity to this issue, are they easy days or recovery days?

Furthermore, i get sick and tired of salazar and every other elite coach treating their coaching knowledge as proprietary information. What's wrong with informing people who are interested? Even if he disclosed every minute detail few would be able to duplicate his regiment due to lack of resources. Understandalby he wants his athletes to have every advantage, but i do not believe witholding coaching tips will eliminate what advantages they do have.

Moreover, why is he so picky about the athletes he chooses? can't he open a large distance running clinic with a large staff of coaches and personel who are committed to maximizing the potential of their pupils. He seems to want to coach only athletes he believes will have a chance of medaling, but how does he know who those athletes are? I've seen many mediocre high school runners become dominant xc and tracks stars in college. I sure athletes committed to running post-college who make the decision would excel far beyond expectations given the resources, guidance, and opportunity that Salazar/Nike can provide. If we allow for facts to tell the story, we'll see that Rupp for a long time after high school didn't offer a great deal of promise to become an olympic silver medalist, but here we are.

The best style for daily runs is Kenyan: first mile almost ridiculpusly slo, the increase pace as you feel. On most days you should finish at or near tempo pace.

Coaches obviously want to limit the number of athletes they coach because they can only micromanage a limited number of athletes.

If Salazar didn't want his "secrets" to be known, he probably wouldn't go to multiple coaching clinics a year or discuss much of his training in interviews... yet he does.

He made it pretty clear (IMO) he wasn't talking about recovery runs, but training runs, on the topic of Cain running 6:30 and Rupp/Farah sub-6.

At NXN, Alberto gave a talk where he said he thinks most people run too slow on their easy days. He said after a while you get to a point where you can run at a moderate effort and still recover for the workout the next day.

He said Cain was running 50 miles per week last year before he started coaching her. She is doing 60 miles per week this year. Her easy runs are at 6:30 pace.

Mo & Galen average 5:40 pace

I am guessing that this claim is horseshit and that the bulk of her running is slower than 7:00 pace, not that this matters.

I had a guy on my college xc team who ran 14:05 for 5K and would run right around 7 flat for all of his runs that werent workouts. She could be running 6:30s but its not necessary all the time. That could just be an estimation and perhaps she might run one 6:30 mile on a 10 mile run when most of the miles are 6:50-7:00 or slower and call it 6:30 pace

Bearded Clam wrote:

I am guessing that this claim is horseshit and that the bulk of her running is slower than 7:00 pace, not that this matters.

Nope

Your guess is incorrect

It is not "horseshit"

This is what Alberto said, her non workout days are 6:30 pace

If you want to believe otherwise, that is fine

someone had to do it wrote:

At NXN, Alberto gave a talk where he said he thinks most people run too slow on their easy days. He said after a while you get to a point where you can run at a moderate effort and still recover for the workout the next day.

He said Cain was running 50 miles per week last year before he started coaching her. She is doing 60 miles per week this year. Her easy runs are at 6:30 pace.

Mo & Galen average 5:40 pace

This makes sense and falls in line with what Canova has said about ALL paces increasing when fitness increases.

I can understand the emphasis on keeping easy days easy for newer/less developed runners to ensure they're not running themselves into the ground or sacrificing workouts, but this whole "make it easy" for advanced runners is really silly. 14 min 5k guys doing 7 min easy runs is just absurd.

There are issues somewhere in that training plan that need to be addressed.

dundundunnn wrote:

I had a guy on my college xc team who ran 14:05 for 5K and would run right around 7 flat for all of his runs that werent workouts. She could be running 6:30s but its not necessary all the time. That could just be an estimation and perhaps she might run one 6:30 mile on a 10 mile run when most of the miles are 6:50-7:00 or slower and call it 6:30 pace

Regarding your 14min teammate, those were probably recovery runs not easy runs. During the season when you are doing workouts, it is wise to do more recovery runs than easy runs.

d3 wrote:

Girls also seem to be able to run a faster relative pace on their easy days. Has anyone else noticed this?

Yes, I was out of shape when I started running track, and basically all the girls could handle faster training paces than I could. Not just easy runs, intervals and tempos too. I think there was only one that actually ran a faster 5k than I did that season though.

They are lighter after all, and should be sustaining less impact at a given pace.

kdkdk wrote:

dundundunnn wrote:

I had a guy on my college xc team who ran 14:05 for 5K and would run right around 7 flat for all of his runs that werent workouts. She could be running 6:30s but its not necessary all the time. That could just be an estimation and perhaps she might run one 6:30 mile on a 10 mile run when most of the miles are 6:50-7:00 or slower and call it 6:30 pace

Regarding your 14min teammate, those were probably recovery runs not easy runs. During the season when you are doing workouts, it is wise to do more recovery runs than easy runs.

_________

Would you mind shutting the phuck already?

An easy run is a recovery.

You're such an annoying Jock Strap.