Is Levy really "breaking all the rules?"

Varsity girls run for 7 mile hilly runs regularly. JV will walk.

They don't do intervals because they don't like to. He found a way to make them good and be happy and healthy. You would only be able to understand if you lived and worked in the district.

Nadel 4:46 Millrose record, Nerud barely outsprinted for 2nd.

So these girls never push the pace and just jog 60 min a day over hills while casually jogging? Sounds like they just run off talent. Don't train like this kids, you will end up mediocre.

yep, 4:46, pure talent, no work. what a joke.

yep, 4:46, pure talent, no work. what a joke.

You have no idea what your talking about. Everyone on this message board either agrees with their training or thinks they run too much. You think its just based on talent. You must be a very accomplished coach or runner. (Yes sarcasm)

I guess North Shore's top 10 finish in cross-country at nationals the last two years is just based on talent as well (more sarcasm)

You make it sound like interval based programs are unhealthy. My kids all do intervals several times a week. We don't have injury issues.

There's nothing wrong with interval training. I coach the MS Team and that's all we do. As I said before, it works for the high school girls. And there are reasons why Levy chooses to train the girls that way that you could only understand if you lived and worked in the district. Doesn't mean Levy thinks that interval training is bad just because he trains them that way, but you have to know your audience, as a coach.

neighborhood runner,

You obviously have things working well. Do you have any thoughts about how/why intervals in MS and limited "intervals" in HS seems to work? Any info on how Levy handles the transition? Finally, a detail question. In order to get 15 pushes in 45 min on a 3-400m hill you kind of have to run 80/90 sec up and 90/100 sec down. Is the accomplished on the same hill or are you blessed with the perfect neighborhood? Thanks

It works for them no doubt, and I think it does so because at this young of pubescence the development of the cardiovascular system and strength from mileage has greater returns than classic "intervals."

But there is a reason that Collegiate and Professional runners don't train this way. They will need to transition to a more strenuous routine in college to see improvement.

some college runners do train like this, especially in winter.

I have had in depth conversations with a recently sub 14 5k-er on what he's doing right now. He run 10-12 times a week, 10 are just distance runs. 2 out of those 10 are performed at 5:45 pace (so a slow tempo/steady state)

The two "workouts" are either 10mile tempo/long hill repeats alternating weekly and the other is mile repeats/repeat 1k's alternating weekly. He does this from august-march.

Now yes there is "interval training" in his routine but I think this closely resembles this h.s program and I feel people who train like that in high school will adapt very easily to this training system.

On a side note, this training is very consistent and make you feel "bored" at time so it really makes you hungry to race which I think is a HUGE part of coaching.

The next Huck Finn wrote:

So these girls never push the pace and just jog 60 min a day over hills while casually jogging? Sounds like they just run off talent. Don't train like this kids, you will end up mediocre.

You don't get Lydiard if this is how you interpret this. "Long aerobic running" in Lydiardspeak doesn't mean slow.

Have you read this thread?

Let me catch you up. "Neighborhood Runner" who claims to watch them out of their window when they run by (who claims to be a mom but I doubt it) says "They jog along casually and socially never pushing the pace."

So I agree, not Lydiard. I suggest reading a few previous posts before jumping to conclusions.

I can assure you that the North Shore Girls Training Program has nothing to do with "Lydiards principles" (A little birdie told me) Even though they reflect similar styles of training, the design and application was based on a far different reason. Perhaps "neighborhood runner" can ask Levy why he does what he does? or respond herself if she knows (since she says she does). I do know that according to the girls on the team, they NEVER run faster than easy pace (conversational pace) except on the strides obviously.

I know the answer wrote:

I can assure you that the North Shore Girls Training Program has nothing to do with "Lydiards principles" (A little birdie told me) Even though they reflect similar styles of training, the design and application was based on a far different reason.

what does this mean? a 'far different reason?' ???? what otehr reason is there to run longish than aerobic development?

And 'neighborhood runner' says 'You would only be able to understand if you lived and worked in the district.'

what is this weird secret bubble of weirdness over that town?

To answer some of your questions, the MS Athletic program has four seasons. I coach 3 of the 4 (xc, winter track & spring track) I don't see the kids Jan.-March. I only get to see the kids 10 weeks each season. My goal is to generate interest in track and xc and get them good quickly because if they see improvements over the 10 weeks they become more motivated and happy about their performance. If the kids do three seasons they are more likely to run on their own during the off season. At the end of Spring track, I collect everyone's email addresses and email the kids on a weekly basis over the summer letting them know when and where I will be running and invite them to come. Kids who are in 8th grade transition well to the HS program because over the summer we do the same thing Levy does just not as far.

The kids see improvement in both my way of training and Levy's. Levy's is definitely more long term development, but all his girls have pr'd from the 400m to the 3000m this season, so they too are motivated and happy.

As far as the hills, the neighborhood is great for running. There are only 3 ways in by car. There are 3 hill loops, and probably 4 or 5 dead end hills. I live on the original loop that the girls first started running on eight years ago. It is a half mile loop. The loop runs, obviously, have six different hills to run on because the girls reverse them and repeat them. There is a large field, about a half mile around, adjacent to the neighborhood, that the girls can run their 10 minute flat before and after their hill "workout." And the neighborhood is about 200meters from the high school track.

I've often wondered how much better I would have been had my coach taken this approach. We used to run so many workouts sooo freakin hard, then you toss in the number of meets we had, and then each of us ran multiple events at those meets. I dont think he ever worried about "going to the well too many times."

neighborhood runner,

Thanks.