The UNCENSORED "Week that Was"

What an embarassing attempt this thread is to get placed on the "On The Boards" list on the front page. There is nothing edgy or uncensored about your commentary other than ill-informed opinions and poor attempts at satire and humor. Honestly, the word "with" is only about four letters long. You are saving yourself two letters when you type "w/" instead. Wildly unneccessary.

What makes you think that Fernandez could beat a 3:34 guy and a guy that beat a 3:34 guy? He's damn good, but let's get real. He'd be third, probably.

As for the whole John Cook Athletes thing...that's when I knew this was all a big joke. Flanagan has one bad race, and Donohue is competitive with three women who have run 4:00-4:01 this year? Nice try. Both of them will improve markedly without Cook, as he is a pisspoor human being.

The only thing I might agree with you on is Fam. The thing is, Fam cares more about gaining notoriety than about winning. He is a shameless self-promoter and horribly self-involved. It is embarassing to watch him run and more embarassing to listen to him try to excuse his off days.

In defense of Smith, this guy cannot catch a break. We say last year was a fluke and clearly isn't of the class to make another team. He finishes one spot away and we conclude this vindicates his lack of talent, And that he choked.

For Atrruner: Last year wasn't a fluke, just ask Christian. Its well documented that he was confident going into the Trials based upon recent workouts. I'd also say this .... I guarantee you he feels the same way. He's had a great season to date.

For Wastolife:

On Fernandez and the 1500: If you watched the NCAA 1500 where he used Dorian Ulrey like a circus animal then you'd understand that this dude's not afraid and has ice in his veins. That said, I agree....probably third.

On Coach Cook: I can't speak to whether he's "...a pisspoor human being", but I can say the following -

Last Year: Flanagan won the OTs and Donohue finished third.

This Year: Flanagan second & slower and in reality Donohue's even further back given Jenny B's 3:59.

.

Lickety Split wrote:

- 800M: Symmonds will medal...no one else makes finals.

- 1500M: None make the finals....even Lagat. You heard it here first.

- Steeple: None make the final

- 5K: Lagat Medals, Teg gets a top 5...no one else makes finals.

- 10K: Rupp & Ritz. Rupp will hit the Top 5. Nelson does not make finals.

This perspective could change if American distance runners treat races like events that require them to PR. Right now most of them have created a world where they think you can only run your fastest at Palo Alto or a rabbited European event.

On what are you basing any of these predictions upon other than random guessing?

800: Highly doubtful that Symmonds will medal. He's running a second slower this year than he did last year. With improved tactics he could sneak into the final, and if gets there, anything could happen. But I still see top 5 as nothing but an outside shot, with nothing to suggest otherwise. Agree that Brown will not advance, KD may make semis, but he ran a very typical KD race at USA's and still only ran a 1:45 high.

1500: Just because that's what happened at the Olympics last year, now none of them will make the finals? Lagat will make the finals, unless something seriously bad happens. Manzano and Lomong do have an outside shot. I say one of them sneaks in but does not do well in the final. Lagat will medal.

Steeple: Agreed.

5k: Lagat, Teg, and Solinsky ALL make the finals and at least three of them finish in the top seven. Solinsky is right with Teg, and Teg got 4th two years ago. Both have noticeably improved since. Lagat will be a favorite for the win.

10k: Rupp I agree has an outside chance at top five or six or so, if he runs well. I predict he gets sixth. If Ritz has an on day he could get top 10. He was 9th in the Olympic marathon last year. There are no heats of the 10k ANYWHERE that I know of, so Tim Nelson will indeed be running. However it's been a damn long season for him, so I don't know what to expect.

Lick, Shumacher cannot be responsible for what Shalane has been doing or not doing for the 8 months before she joined his program. Do you honestly think there is ZERO transition period between two completely different programs?

Do you think Tegan was really responsible for the still standing NCAA XC record that Stanford set the fall after Lananna left for his AD job? If so why did they fall off after that? Lananna built that program up and it was still his runners that won NCAA's and not Tegans magic sudden touch.

Furthermore if Shalane turns out a better performance at worlds that's all that matters. They've been at altitude and not doing a lot of sharpening coming into USA's, which is why the mens 5K results was so impressive. Teg said before the race that 3rd was as good as first in terms of their goals and preparations since it was all about worlds. It's great if they can win USA's and still manage to be the top Americans AND turn out their biggest performance of the year at Worlds, but if they needed to compromise the performance of Worlds in any way to ensure a victory at USA's that would be wrong. That's the big fish small pond approach that we don't need. I'd much rather see people buried in their training and running flat through USA's with a jump in performance at worlds. That's not something we see too often from our distance runners.

are you shitting me?? Symmonds is not going to medal!!hahaha woww. He MIGHT make the final but even making it out of the first round will be challenging.

Wastolife: Can you explain the term "random guessing." Isn't guessing random to begin with.....This is the last post on predictions I'll address because I'm more interested in "State of the Sport/Athletes" discussions that the BROJO's should have addressed in their summary of last weeks championships.

800: Symmonds didn't have much of an April because of injury, but continued to run well at Nike Portland, Pre, USTAF, etc. He's in low 1:44/high 1:43 shape based upon the winds there at Hayward.

1500: You can't do it unless you do it and I haven't seen much from Bernard...August is a long time away and I know he's a pro, but you gotta be sharp for the 1500.

5K: You must be from Portland to have that perspective.

10K/Steeple: Violent Agreement

I don't feel like reading this whole thread but I would like to comment on a few things from the OP. First of all - the 1500m runners will not have to set a pb to advance because they run tactical 1500m in the world champs and olympics. I have read this ignorant comment about tactical 1500m races by americans too often. I get the feeling that the OP has not seen many championship races. Then he goes on to criticize Fams race in the wind. Hmmmmm, 1500m runners should not run tactical but 5k should?

asdfhg wrote:

Rupp could sneak in for 3rd if he can hold this peak for long enough. He seems to have good closing speed now, good enough for 10k anyway.

I agree. Rupp might have snuck in for 3rd in the 5000m over the weekend.

I like your outing of Fam. I didn't think of that, but it makes sense.

What about the women's 800? I did not see your comment on that (perhaps I missed it). I don't understand why the Brojos are so excited about Maggie Vessey's race. How cannot this be a huge mistake? She probably won't make the team now. Was it some sort of bravura a la Fam, with the idea to stun everybody in the final seconds?

great stuff... agreed that should be a weekly thing lickety! agreed on all counts... especially fam, he's been around the block he knows better than that front running stuff when you're fighting for a spot like that... makes me sad that i saw him doing that,all i could do is just shake my head...

and just for reference spine bifida isn't lack of a spine... it's just the malformation of the neural tubes and a splitting of the spine... just to drop a little knowledge on ya

Lickety Split wrote:

- 800M: Symmonds will medal...no one else makes finals.

first off, great week-in-reveiw, please do it every week

but, what makes you think symmonds can medal? his kick looks great against americans, but it seems against the rest of the world his kick is nothing special - esp. when compared to guys yego, borza and bungi(sp?), or even gary reed and kaki. he doesn't seem that much better than last year

Misleading thread title.

L. Split, mighty fine job in your assessment of "the week that was." A darn good job indeed. I believe it helped to supplement what the Brojos wrote for their piece.

I beg to differ. I think it's an appropriate title.

(Btw, you don't always have to defend the brojos.)

usual suspects wrote:

I beg to differ. I think it's an appropriate title.

(Btw, you don't always have to defend the brojos.)

You must have missed the innuendo.

I don't defend the brojos on everything. Take TWTW for example. Why are they comparing attendance with Oregon basketball games? Basketball is more entertaining to watch than track, I don't care how much of a track fan you are (or I am). Plus, it's the school's team. The audience knows the players. They play at the school. I'm sure the students get free admission.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

usual suspects wrote:

I beg to differ. I think it's an appropriate title.

(Btw, you don't always have to defend the brojos.)

You must have missed the innuendo.

I don't defend the brojos on everything. Take TWTW for example. Why are they comparing attendance with Oregon basketball games? Basketball is more entertaining to watch than track, I don't care how much of a track fan you are (or I am). Plus, it's the school's team. The audience knows the players. They play at the school. I'm sure the students get free admission.

Ok, I misread the attendance numbers. I thought it was higher for bball games, but you get my point. They act surprised that it's only slightly higher. I also disagree that USAs should have been somewhere else this year. Mostly because I don't think it would have made a difference in attendance. The OTs are the OTs, this wasn't. I actually think there could be less people somewhere else. It's not about location. It's about entertainment value.

Thanks for the background on spine bifida......I use/spell it a different way - "spina bifida" as a way to highlight weakness or cramps in someone's moral spine. A concrete example:

- Flanagan, Tyson Gay, and Lagat demonstrated "Spina Bifida" by competing in the national championships under false pretense's --- not trying to win and be a champion.

1. Based upon comments that the "Thread" has gotten too long, Lickety's recapping comments on the "Real Week That Was" as a convenience to serious readers. Again, a warning....only read the "Real Week That Was" below if you want to know what the BROJO's are afraid to say about the USATF Nationals now that LETSRUN's gone mainstream...you know, afraid of Salazar, Nike, O, calling out athletes, etc.

* 800 meters. A clear "choke" by Christian Smith. Get a haircut & let's start racing like you want to win. Be KD!

* 1500 meters: Let's quit crying about the number of folks in the respective heats. The real issue is that American Milers don't want to run fast at the championships which will be in stark contrast to the World Championships. Instead of approaching the event as a "Heat", American milers should approach it as a "Race" which will be reality in Berlin. They'll need to PR in the heats in order to advance. For those that disagree that WCs or Olympic heats are pedestrian -- Show Me Some Homework...and that doesn't mean just one year.

Furthermore, w/so many in the field w/o even a "B" Standard why did we see a pedestrian pace in the first couple of laps. Not too mention any names...JMac...I'm sure you were "Just Happy to Be There" and good on ya....but why weren't you and many others not going for the standard/win?Did all of you "Non-Standard Milers" really think you could outkick Manzano and Lomong for the big win? The real hope is that they get boxed in or do a Vessey versus you all being able to get them at the lean.

Let's face it....many American Milers are "Weak Sisters" when it comes to laying it on the line.

* 1500m: Alan Webb & the rest of the Summer: I'd recommend that Webb move his focus to the Steeple and 5th Avenue Mile. Be like Anna Willard! Take some pressure off yourself and do something new which you'd probably be great at like Anna....additionally, the US Steeple is wideopen. Probably the weakest US field from a international perspective other than the racewalk. Have fun and run the steeple and then finish up strong at 5th Avenue in September. Then RESET and figure out if you need a change. I'd recommend John Cook since he's there in Northern Va or some kind of partnership between him and Razcko. Screw next years indoors....come back strong in IAAF Cross-Country, then make the call come Spring time on Middle Distance or the Steeple.

* 5K Tony "Suicide by Front-Runing" Fam. Let's not BS here....FAM did not want to make the team. He's got a mental barrier to hurdle for his career. What else would explain him running like an idiot into a strong headwind. You can just see him saying to himself....."I'll make this a race early so I can have an "out" at the end." Lickety don't play that ....FAM I'm "OUTING" you on this one. You CHOKED yourself. In fact I'll take it further, Now I know what he's peaking for -

http://www.letsrun.com/2009/peachtree0701.php

* 5K: German Fernandez: What a stud! He may have won the 1500m if he chose. Kudos to Coach Smith for bringing him along. More athletes should consider OSU....I'd say that bringing a talented athlete to the next level is more difficult/pressure than a underdeveloped athlete to prominence.

* The Mammoth Lakes Group. Aside from Anna Willard, the nationals represented poor decisionmaking & performance by Terrance Mahon's group. Why would he not have Kastor and Hall duke it out in the 10k w/the rest of the folks? I'm telling you...the further you keep our marathoners from coming back to the track & World Cross Country the farther behind they'll fall. Both Hall & Kastor ran best when still running track versus these road races and Mammoth tempo runs. They've only gotten worse or injured since joining his tea. It's also disappointing to see Mahon coach down the Slattery's....they're smart in leaving and I predict will come back hard.

I'm putting a shot across the bow at distance runners who become "One Trick Ponies." That's why they go stale....not too mention any names - Brian Sell, Ryan Hall. Kudos to Meb, Dathan, and Kara and other Spring Marathoners for coming back to the track and mixing it up Old School. All to say Terrrence, thumbs up for getting MEB back to a PR and on the track.

* Former John Cook Athletes: Based upon demonstrated performance, I'd say that Flanagan and Donahoe made bad calls. Shumacher's coached her down to a second place and more than a minute slower....Donahoe's stagnated. Lickety's not buying Flanagan's Rabbit Story nor training through...Begley spanked her.

* Flanagan & Goucher: They're both avoiding each other....what else explains Goucher "working on her marathon kick" by running the 5K versus 10K.

2. Comments on BROJO's published "Weak-Ass That Was" which just came out.

- Eugene Track Oversaturation: Fellas, enough of the handwringing and false analogies in comparing the Champs with a UO basketball game. The cold, hard facts....and this is coming from a non-OU/Nike/Salazar Mancrush Guy.....is that there is no other place in the United States where you could get 9,500 folks a day. So put the tougue back in the mouth because your "Told You So" perspective doesn't stand.

- The Bye's: BROJO's its not about YOU. We should be grateful for not only our returning World Champions, but an opportunity to put four in the respective event. What you should be talking about is moving the outdoor championships closer to the Worlds so it weeds out those that are healthy/hurt and catches everyone at their peak. Similar to what's been done in XC.

- BROJO Commentating: Don't get to proud of yourselves as reflected in your "We were proud of ourselves for asking if the Schumacher sweep of the 5k was possible with 1k to go." One of you kept righting off Fernandez during the 5K where he broke the American AJR. I'm sure that wouldn't have happened if he was from Portland or OU.

- Webb Analysis: Concur

- On Going Pro Early: I like your one-sided perspective with all the cherry-picked examples of those who've had a tough time. How about those that HAVE done well?

- I'm giving the "Week That Was" commentary on the National Championships a "Thumbs Down"

3. What the BROJO'S Should Be Talking About to their Silent Partner (Phil Knight)...I'm talking a "Open Letter to Mr. Knight"

* Track & Field SPINA BIFIDA. If I'm the USATF President -- aka Phil Knight, I'd have Flanagan, Willard, and Goucher's ass in my office on Monday. Flanagan counseled on this BS "You take a Lap, I take a Lap, I'm OK, your OK" approach toward the 10k; Goucher gets it for dodging Flanagan; and Willard gets it for settling on something other than victory against Barringer on my home track (aka Hayward) and in front of a national TV audience that my advertisements funded. You could have had another "Dan and Dave" commercial series going into Worlds. This time its "Hotty and Homely." I'd then have a conference call w/all my Coaches/Surrogates -- Salazar, Mahon, Shumacher, BROJOs, Wetmore, Micahel Johnson et al -- I'd be telling them that from now on Nike athletes at the Championships will be in the contracts just like Pre.

* Based upon your market dominance in the sport, when are you going to begin not only structuring athlete contracts based upon their performance at cross-country/track national/world championships ?

* When are you going to make it mandatory that they participate in X-C/T&F national championships unless hurt?

* When are you going to market/make-up rivalries....Willard & Barringer, Goucher & Flanagan, Fernandez & Derrick,

* When are you going to tell Jeremy Wariner that enough is enough....that based on demonstrated performance your 200M speed is capped, Lashawn's got your number, and now its time for the 800m or 400 hurdles?

4. Other Things the BROJO's Should Be Talking About

* Rating the Coaches -- how about some more accountability versus hype. Take a look at how their respective stables performed....Salazar, Shumacher, Mahon, Hudson, etc....and see where they came out nationally. For example, How JJ Clark's coached Sarah Bowman down from last years 4:07, an outstanding week at Penn this year and T&FN cover to becoming a 4:14-16 athlete? Does she need to switch to Coach Watts or will he even be there in the fall?

5. I'm not repeating my predictions....they served as a red herring to serious analysis about the state of our sport in one of its most important weeks. Go back and look if you like.