Not so quickly,
you're the one who should not be so quick to say that I was trying to compare. My post was a simple illustration to show what other Olympic medalists do, in this case Rui Silva. Just for illustration, not comparison.
Not so quickly,
you're the one who should not be so quick to say that I was trying to compare. My post was a simple illustration to show what other Olympic medalists do, in this case Rui Silva. Just for illustration, not comparison.
irun wrote:
i see the source:
"What does the Olympic metric mile champion consider a tough session on the track?
RR: (Laughs) I know this one. Eight repeats of one kilometer. I run them between 2:29 and 2:31 with about 90 seconds rest (in between), depending on how fast the heart rate comes down."
that's toeing the redline
exactly anyone at the very top level is toeing the redline, if they toe it right they will have an outstanding perforfmance, if they go above that line they will get injured and either not get to the race or perform poorly, if the person goes below that line then they are very unlikely to reach their potential.
how to train just right is the question and while there are good programs, there are no perfect programs, in my opinion we are still in the infancy of knowing how to get the maximal performance out of the body through training.
Not An Expert wrote:
That's what a long period of high-level training will do for you...
...along with a good helping of EPO.
The rest was not always exactly 90 seconds - he says that it was about 90 seconds or until his heart rate came down.
I assume he was training based on his heart rate being down to 120 or something. In reality the recovery could have been much longer.
It makes it more believable but as with most workout stories the repetitions grow, the times get faster and the rests get shoter each time the story gets told..
there are work-out heros everywhere, why is it so surprising that there is one at the top level, Ramzi is running sessions far better than any of his races to date although his performances at 2005 world champs are one of the all time greatest championship series.
Obviously an interval freak. they are out there.
greeneyes wrote:
It's also easier if you're a superior talent who's had a tought childhood and not some namby-pamby westerner who grew up being bused to school, playing Nintendo and drowning in Big Macs.
yeah, but my original explanation of doping is the correct one.
also, i never had a video game system. video games are f'ing stupid. nor did we get fast food more than once or twice a month as children.
but if you want to be another anti-american apologist, that's cool. good for you.
doodle kong wrote:
there are work-out heros everywhere, why is it so surprising that there is one at the top level, Ramzi is running sessions far better than any of his races to date although his performances at 2005 world champs are one of the all time greatest championship series.
Obviously an interval freak. they are out there.
Yeah, that session is far better than his gold medal in the Olympics.
This is certainly a VO2 max workout and "2:29 to 2:31" is certainly about 4k pace for a world champion (VO2 max pace).
VO2 max workouts are typically 800-1200m reps broken by rest sufficient to bring the HR down to 120. This is the same for a 7:30 runner or a 10:30 runner. While it is hard for us to imagine, he can probably tolerate the 90 second rest because a 2:30 1000m is just a little slower than what it would take to "blow up".
In high school, we did 8-12 x 800m all the time (8 on the track and 12 on the grass). WE took 2:00-2:30 recovery, but we were doing 5-6 miles of reps and we were 15 and 16 years old.
There is a good article by JK about this kind of training on this website.
Lots of runners do 10 x 1k at 2:45 with just 30-45 secs rest, I have read this for 20 years, so it is not surprising that someone who is capable of 1:42/3:28/12:50 can do that much better with longer rest.
Last Tuesday I did 8 x 1k in 2:53-2:50 with 2 minutes rest on a grass field with uneven hilly terrain. I am training to run 14:30 or so at the San Jose Applied Materials 5k..... I bet on the track with spikes I could handle 2:45-2:50 with 2 minutes rest.... Ramzi is a beast. The thing is that a lot of really elite athletes just get much better adaptation out of these types of workouts than us normal folk...I have seen plenty of guys who are "workout kings" but can't race like a champion. Elite athletes don't have to kill themselves in workouts to get the adaptation they need to run fast, that is why they are elite... they recover faster, and flat out adapt better
Lots of runners do not do 10x1k@2:45 with 30- 45 sec rest.
That is a world class workout for sub 28 10k or 13:20 5k runners. As others have commented, 90 sec is short for k repeats, so 30-45 is ridiculous.Also, there is a quantum leap from 2:40 down to 2:30. To run 5 or more 1k @2:30 you had better be able to cruise 7:40, and think of how few guys in the world can run 7:40.
Also. to Alan and Wellnow; 8x1k@3k pace is very impressive at any rest. It would certainly be a high intensity effort.
another canuck wrote:
Lots of runners do not do 10x1k@2:45 with 30- 45 sec rest.
That is a world class workout for sub 28 10k or 13:20 5k runners. As others have commented, 90 sec is short for k repeats, so 30-45 is ridiculous.Also, there is a quantum leap from 2:40 down to 2:30. To run 5 or more 1k @2:30 you had better be able to cruise 7:40, and think of how few guys in the world can run 7:40.
Also. to Alan and Wellnow; 8x1k@3k pace is very impressive at any rest. It would certainly be a high intensity effort.
Lots of 28:00-flat runners do. Barrios was the first one I read about doing this, I am sure it was done (in various forms) 50 years earlier.
My point was that Ramzi is WAY above that level (he would be about 12:50) and therefore his VO2max pace would be 10 secs faster per 1600 and about 6 secs faster per 1000m, so that puts him at 2:39 for more reps and a much shorter rest.
I don't know why everyone is so amazed by this ... we have all seen 8 x 800m at VO2max with 2:00 off? Probably most of us have done it?
This isn't that much different.
You need to be able to run 3:28/12:50 to run these times, but the rest of it is not different than what most of us do. Although, when I have seen "hardest workout" threads I do see that very few people have done 6 x 1mile ... so maybe you have not done hard workouts.
R.L. Scribner wrote:
doodle kong wrote:there are work-out heros everywhere, why is it so surprising that there is one at the top level, Ramzi is running sessions far better than any of his races to date although his performances at 2005 world champs are one of the all time greatest championship series.
Obviously an interval freak. they are out there.
Yeah, that session is far better than his gold medal in the Olympics.
your an idiot, if they gave out gold medals for sessions, this one would probably win it.
The times and paces outlined are more impressive than his run in the final at Olympics.
probably not though wrote:
Lots of 28:00-flat runners do. Barrios was the first one I read about doing this, I am sure it was done (in various forms) 50 years earlier.
27:08 is in a whole different level than 28:00-flat.
TheLostCity wrote:
The rest was not always exactly 90 seconds - he says that it was about 90 seconds or until his heart rate came down.
I assume he was training based on his heart rate being down to 120 or something. In reality the recovery could have been much longer.
It makes it more believable but as with most workout stories the repetitions grow, the times get faster and the rests get shoter each time the story gets told..
DEPENDING ON HOW FAST THE HEART RATE CAME DOWN
Simple comprehension. If I was a teacher, I would fail you all for not reading all the text.
The recoveries may have started off at 90 seconds and then drifted. Maybe for the last couple it was 4 minute rest - who knows?
And why are some posters so certain that Ramzi can run 12.50 for 5 km? Maybe it is true but it is more likely he would be around 13 minutes.
The 200m is a way different workout. It is an anaerobic stress more than aerobic. 24s is almost at 400m pr pace and your alactic system can't really recover in 90s.It is definitely a tough workout and I am always suspect of internet workouts (did he do sets, were some of them 2.35 with only the last ones at 2:30, was it run on a road/grass course or a track (coes infamous 1.50s 800 m workout)...) but this is on the edge of believability as stated. I have no problem beliveing Bekele could do this (only a second faster than 5k pace and I used to do 8x800 at 5k pace with 2min rest all the time. It took me about the same amount of time to run 800m as it takes them to run 1000. The extra 30s of rest is definitely makes it much harder but again I am pretty sure they recover much faster than atheletes running 2 mins slower.
oldhalfmileguy wrote:
I think it is BS as well, in college we did alot of work on short rest, 90 seconds is a very,very short rest, even on a short interval. The cumulative effect is devastating, the first few intervals seem pedestrian but by the 6th interval you feel like you have no rest at all, your legs cramp & lock on you and you hyperventilate, the last 3 intervals feel as if they are back to back.
I don't like math so i can't give all the ratios, but my coach was an Olympic finalist in the 800, this was a workout that was very popular in his day and he told me no one had ever done 8x220 in 24 with 90 sec rest, he claimed his best was 8x220 in 26, granted this is a much shorter workout but the effort level, duration in relation to the recovery time is not even CLOSE to what is being claimed in this thread. I know from personal experience what my workout did to me and other good runners, any increase in
effort is compounded by 7 more intervals at almost non existant recovery. At 1/4 distance race pace it is a brutal workout at 1/2 distance race pace it is impossible,
4 repeats at 1/2 distance race pace would probably be the max for elite runner, 6 for world class, 8 impossible.
BS.
doodle kong wrote:
your an idiot, if they gave out gold medals for sessions, this one would probably win it.
The times and paces outlined are more impressive than his run in the final at Olympics.
Haha, okay, troll. His workout is better than being the best person in the world in the 1500. He should have done better. You got me.
R.L. Scribner wrote:
Haha, okay, troll. His workout is better than being the best person in the world in the 1500. He should have done better. You got me.
what if Ramzi had done 8x1k in 2:20 with 30 seconds rest? Obviously thats ridiculous but that workout would clearly have been more impressive than his olympic performance. It doesn't have anything to do with beating everyone else in the world. That's all the guy's saying, Ramzi works out like, I don't know, a 3:24 1500 runner instead of the 3:29 guy he is.
cmurph wrote:
Ramzi works out like, I don't know, a 3:24 1500 runner instead of the 3:29 guy he is.
No, he doesn´t.
cmurph wrote:
what if Ramzi had done 8x1k in 2:20 with 30 seconds rest? Obviously thats ridiculous but that workout would clearly have been more impressive than his olympic performance. It doesn't have anything to do with beating everyone else in the world. That's all the guy's saying, Ramzi works out like, I don't know, a 3:24 1500 runner instead of the 3:29 guy he is.
Ramzi works out like Ramzi, which has turned him into the best 1500 meter runner in the world. It's unbelievable that someone can sit on the Internet, critiquing the gold medal winner, as if he's some average college kid trying to emulate Galen Rupp's workouts. Ramzi is at the very top, and it's obvious that his training works for him. Maybe he needs to be a workout champion. Maybe he thrives on that. Who cares? Workouts are only important in terms of the results that they produce.
idiot alert wrote:
No, he doesn´t.
look, I just pulled 3:24 out of my ass. I was trying to explain what Doug Burke meant because some people misunderstood him. I have no idea what kind of 1500 that workout indicates