As a 28 year old veteran who does receive compensation from my time in service and is currently using my education benefits, I don't care if I deserve it or not. It's offered to me, so I'm gonna use it. I probably wouldn't have signed up in the first place if it wasn't offered to me. At the end of the day, our military is voluntary. If they didn't offer these incentives to people, NOBODY would sign up and it would cease to be voluntary and more than likely transition into a draft scenario. My advice to you, stop pocket watching other people and worry about your own life and how you bring bread to your table.
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Sum dude wrote:
bhah wrote:
The point of these wars was not to “win”. The US is designed to always be in some war or the other because
1) The military industrial complex companies need the spending to stay profitable and keep doing the R&D to try to stay ahead. All the Ukraine aid for example is just coming back to our MIC, so the “foreign aid” is just a local grant.
2) We need live combat practice for our armed forces so they don’t get too rusty.
I hope you're joking
No, I’m super cereal.
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yay marxism wrote:
All these people bad mouthing veterans and the VA have never given a day of their life in service of their country and it shows.
Anyone doing any job or even managing a household consisting of more than themselves is serving the country by contributing to its GDP. It’s utterly unimportant for most people to be “in service of their country” directly.
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Hard question asker wrote:
The VA budget is $400B a year (~$25k per living vet)
These people (save a few Vietnam vets) willingly volunteered to work for the armed forces and most of em worked a desk/non-combat job for 5-10 years and now get $25k a year from me. Why do they need MORE than that?
I don't know if your numbers are correct, but my sense is that much/most of the VA expenditures are for elderly veterans and younger disabled veterans in the VA Health System. I am a healthy 57 year old veteran (Gulf War) and don't believe I have received a dollar of VA services. (I received an update on Gulf War Syndrome several years ago and that is the extent of my contact with the VA.)
In any event, I don't see how anyone who has seen one of those "Tunnell to Towers" commercials can object to spending on Veterans. Some of the responses on this thread show how sheltered some of you are.
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Masked Off wrote:
We sure do. First, have a draft today. Scary to think about. Second, these people sacrificed a lot and saw friends die so you can live a very easy peaceful life now. Finally, $25k a year from you? Yeah, sure. Bonus - I do a lot for charity, mostly sick children and the military but I don't discriminate. A few weeks ago we went out to a veteran's house and rebuilt his wheelchair ramp. We gave him $5K too. America!
Most veterans did not see friends who died. There's over a million active military per year. A thousand deaths per year, except only a couple dozen per year are from the enemy. Most die from sickness, accidents, suicide. It's been a long time since American military was sent into a meat grinder. The early 2000's was the closest with a few hundred per year dying from the enemy out of 1.5 million, so 1 out of several thousand. On average people might have known one person who died in the early 2000's from enemy fire. It all depended on what your job was, people in the Navy or Air Force only saw people dying from crashes, not from the enemy.
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Hard question asker wrote:
The VA budget is $400B a year (~$25k per living vet)
These people (save a few Vietnam vets) willingly volunteered to work for the armed forces and most of em worked a desk/non-combat job for 5-10 years and now get $25k a year from me. Why do they need MORE than that?
We have to uphold the terms of the contract when they enlisted. As you note, most were not in combat and those folks don't likely cost the system much. The ones who were likely do. But even people who did not see combat suffer conditions like the ones associated with burning crap that turned out to be very bad.
You seem to have a mind like Musk (and I don't mean that as a compliment) where you oversimplify very complex things.00 -
Hard question asker wrote:
answerers wrote:
I can think of a lot worse ways to spend that money. This is a promise made and needs to be kept.
What you could be angry about is your government wanting to privatize that care to the highest bidders who then milk the government for every last cent.
What promises were made? Why are they more deserving than any other citizen? They were already paid a salary + benefits while they served!
Most of em just do it for the job/stability/because they couldnt do anything else?
I am not deeply familiar with the contract, but the terms are laid out in it just like in union contracts. Let's say the contract says "You work 25 years, we give you lifetime medical care". Well then they get lifetime medical care.
Why are they more deserving? Well they agreed to get (potentially) shot at or blown up when they were told to go do a job.
It is really insulting that you think people in the military "couldn't do anything else". Those desk jobs are important. Someone has to be in charge of ordering equipment and making sure it gets to the right place at the right time. Just as in a lot of businesses, there are people who might not figure in the actual final product but need others to do their jobs.
In the end, they signed a contract and although Trump is notorious for not paying people who do work for him, he will face a s--tstorm from some of these VA cuts (a lot of those veterans voted for him and his toadies.).20 -
Hard question asker wrote:
Masked Off wrote:
We sure do. First, have a draft today. Scary to think about. Second, these people sacrificed a lot and saw friends die so you can live a very easy peaceful life now. Finally, $25k a year from you? Yeah, sure. Bonus - I do a lot for charity, mostly sick children and the military but I don't discriminate. A few weeks ago we went out to a veteran's house and rebuilt his wheelchair ramp. We gave him $5K too. America!
Loggers, Fishermen, and roofers die at a higher rate on the job than military employees... do they deserve that too?
If they signed a contract, then yes.
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NO MORE HANDOUTS wrote:
I defend Myself. The US Military Defends Wall Street Profits. Nobody Attacked the US and Nobody ever Invaded. Lots of Lies. You all believed.
Where were you on September 11, 2001?
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samcallan wrote:
NO MORE HANDOUTS wrote:
I defend Myself. The US Military Defends Wall Street Profits. Nobody Attacked the US and Nobody ever Invaded. Lots of Lies. You all believed.
Where were you on September 11, 2001?
At your mom’s house
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Kobbs Hessler wrote:
We only stopped paying the last Civil War widow four years ago
The article says she never collected benefits.
Quote:
After Bolin’s death in 1939, she did not seek his pension.21 -
Harambe wrote:
Hard question asker wrote:
I would support paying current service members (much) more but cutting vet benefits. It's no more dangerous than many other jobs and creating life-long entitlements is just bad fiscal policy.
This is probably a good idea. Life long entitlements can blow up in your face and most people volunteering for the army are going to value more $ upfront vs deferred payment.
seems like a win winI am game for new contracts or options, but they need to be honored regardless.
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yay marxism wrote:
Hard question asker wrote:
The VA budget is $400B a year (~$25k per living vet)
These people (save a few Vietnam vets) willingly volunteered to work for the armed forces and most of em worked a desk/non-combat job for 5-10 years and now get $25k a year from me. Why do they need MORE than that?
Our country struggles enough to get people to enlist without removing the benefits of it. Of course its only you cowardly draft dodgers that complain about veterans benefits. Yall need to shut your fvcking mouths before complaining about people who have dont more for their country than you ever will. They have lifelong physical and mental trauma because of what they endured in war.
There has not been a draft during the lives of most of the folks here (guessing that since the last draft number pulled was in June 30, 1973). Interesting that he stayed in until 2011.
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Kobbs Hessler wrote:
yay marxism wrote:
Our country struggles enough to get people to enlist without removing the benefits of it. Of course its only you cowardly draft dodgers that complain about veterans benefits. Yall need to shut your fvcking mouths before complaining about people who have dont more for their country than you ever will. They have lifelong physical and mental trauma because of what they endured in war.
Actually, recruitment is way up in the last three months since Trump got elected.
Here is an interesting article. I am inferring that young people were interested in joining but could not meet the physical and/or academic requirements so the Army started a pre-boot camp type program (Future Soldier Preparatory Course) to meet the standards. This appears to have been a big factor in the improvement.
So I am not sure Trump can take full credit. But then he takes credit for the good and never for the bad.13 -
samcallan wrote:
Hard question asker wrote:
Loggers, Fishermen, and roofers die at a higher rate on the job than military employees... do they deserve that too?
If they signed a contract, then yes.
I agree but the prevailing argument politically seems to be that we owe Veterans MORE, in excess of they agreed to when they signed up. That doesn’t make sense to me and seems to infantilize Veterans and military employees.
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Hard question asker wrote:
The VA budget is $400B a year (~$25k per living vet)
These people (save a few Vietnam vets) willingly volunteered to work for the armed forces and most of em worked a desk/non-combat job for 5-10 years and now get $25k a year from me. Why do they need MORE than that?
Where on earth do you get your “facts”? 5-10 years of service raking in 25k per year? There are certainly people receiving medical benefits, but you have to serve 20 years to get any type of pension. I served 10 years, took advantage of the Vietnam era GI bill got my degree, got a job and paid a boatload of taxes over the following 37 years. 10 years of service, zero benefits after they paid $2,300 for 3 years at a state college. You want to lift up the sheets and really cry about veterans benefits? Start with Teachers Unions and public servants. Exhibit A is Illinois. Educate yourself and realize what a real boondoggle is.
The bloat is not on the veterans, it’s on the underfunded over promising state governments.
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Hard question asker wrote:
The VA budget is $400B a year (~$25k per living vet)
These people (save a few Vietnam vets) willingly volunteered to work for the armed forces and most of em worked a desk/non-combat job for 5-10 years and now get $25k a year from me. Why do they need MORE than that?
Get back to work son, those burgers won't flip themselves.
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I know you made an exception for Vietnam Vets but I think this story should be told anyway. There are many veterans from conflicts that need assistance.
My father was exposed to agent orange in training stateside and fought through the Tet Offensive on the Cambodian border.
He had the connections to get out of the draft but decided not to when all of his cousins dodged the draft along with your current commander and chief so that others would not have to take his place.
He was nearly killed several times and is now receiving medical from the VA for a blood condition caused by agent orange which he was exposed by the US military prior to going to the war.
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Ypm wrote:
As a 28 year old veteran who does receive compensation from my time in service and is currently using my education benefits, I don't care if I deserve it or not. It's offered to me, so I'm gonna use it. I probably wouldn't have signed up in the first place if it wasn't offered to me. At the end of the day, our military is voluntary. If they didn't offer these incentives to people, NOBODY would sign up and it would cease to be voluntary and more than likely transition into a draft scenario. My advice to you, stop pocket watching other people and worry about your own life and how you bring bread to your table.
This is well put. You have to incentive that kind of service or else it's either conscription or a draft.
Also, thank you for your service. I hope you can get great quality of care at VA for your life as promised.
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