What proof do you want? Talk to Hicham. Better yet, go ask his brother in Ksar el Kabir.
Like I can do either thing. If you had a published account you’d share it. But instead it’s internet hearsay. Again I don’t believe he’s clean in all likelihood, but making up stuff is dumb.
Due to the statue of limitations (8 years), his Athens 2004 urine samples (last major competition) can't be retested again (with the new drug testing metods recently discovered)He did not compete after Athens 2004. But he was...
He never failed a test so yes he was clean. Letsrun continues to witch-hunt and cry about suspected dopers instead of putting effort into training
That's a great point - since he never tested positive, people should give him the benefit of the doubt.
Not every top Moroccan runner was doped.
Jesus - he literally retired the year that proper tests for EPO were introduced. Do you give Marita Koch, Kratchilova, Ma's army etc the benefit of the doubt too?
This is a nice in-depth article from Sports Illustrated prior to the 2000 season when El G was 25.
It states that El G had been training with Kada for 10 years - so since he was 15 years old. It also states that Kada believed, as did El G, that he would run 3:24 and 3:40 that summer, and they were training to do just that.
Didn't the first (rather ineffective as it turned out) epo tests come in that year? Probably El G had to throttle back a little.
That's a great point - since he never tested positive, people should give him the benefit of the doubt.
Not every top Moroccan runner was doped.
Jesus - he literally retired the year that proper tests for EPO were introduced. Do you give Marita Koch, Kratchilova, Ma's army etc the benefit of the doubt too?
"Does anybody here genuinely believe El G was clean?"
Letsrun asked the faithful masses what they believed in 2014, and again in 2023.
In 2014, the response for El G was 43% "clean". In 2023, the response was 26% "clean".
The question was 'genuinely' believe. Yes votes from those surveys are made up of bots and shills, and people like a previous commentator who wants everybody (kids included) doping with carcegenic drugs for his entertainment.
Nobody has presented a serious case yet. The best that has been come up with is 'he never tested positive', ignoring the fact that he retired as soon as tests came in, despite at his peak in terms of ability to command appearance money and sponsorships.
I seriously doubt if there is anybody here who genuinely believes he was clean.
That's a great point - since he never tested positive, people should give him the benefit of the doubt.
Not every top Moroccan runner was doped.
Jesus - he literally retired the year that proper tests for EPO were introduced. Do you give Marita Koch, Kratchilova, Ma's army etc the benefit of the doubt too?
That's not correct. The first EPO test was administered at the Sydney Olympics in 2000 (the first male runner to test positive for EPO was a marathoner at the 2001 WC in Edmonton).
El G's Wikipedia page states that he retired in 2006. He didn't retire the "year the proper tests came out" - he had 6 years of competition where he would tested like crazy.
I don't give a benefit of the doubt to those athletes you mentioned because there's strong evidence that they doped. Marita & Jarmila were from Eastern block countries where there's documented evidence of a State-sponsored doping program. And I believe one of the famous runners from Ma's Army admitted to involvement in s doping program within the team (the "turtle blood" concoction was supposedly EPO. Lol). Plus the times those athletes were running were not believable among women runners of that time.
What proof do you want? Talk to Hicham. Better yet, go ask his brother in Ksar el Kabir.
Like I can do either thing. If you had a published account you’d share it. But instead it’s internet hearsay. Again I don’t believe he’s clean in all likelihood, but making up stuff is dumb.
Well then, tell us why you "don't believe he's clean"?
Thank you for providing the data to illustrate my point. As you’ve shown, Hicham improved 1 to 2 seconds per year from ages 19 to 23, which are the ages when steady improvement are expected. Now compare and contrast that with someone like Jacobs:
10.53 at age 19 10.23 at age 20 10.82 at age 21 10.08 at age 22 10.03 at age 23 10.10 at age 24 9.80 at age 25
Which of the two progressions look more suspicious?
It is only the act of doing something that leaves a trace of evidence. Not doing something, doesn't leave evidence.
So you've constructed a nonsensical scenario in which you'll never be convinced. And so I ask, what is the point of this thread?
Lol, what are you talking about? Proof can't be established for El G in either direction, what we have to go on as Trollism stated is circumstantial evidence, and in El G's case, there is probably more of that than any other male middle-distance runner in history who never got popped.
To give an example, I admit that Coe's 'blood disorder' had me feeling he may have been a doper, but then I read the arguments that the blood doping in the 70's and 80's was almost universally autologous (excuse the spelling), and highly unlikely to result in an infection (that's the primary reason it was universally used). Then there was the Finnish newspaper that claimed Coe had failed a test and that was the reason he withdrew from the team for Helsinki. But others pointed out that the journalist in question had a history of just flatly making things up.
I'm willing to have my mind changed, I just don't see the slightest reason in the case of El G. In fact, over time, I come across even more circumstantial evidence that builds the case that he was a doper. For example, this morning reading an archived Sports Ilustrated article from 2000 in which his coach Kada states that he (EL G) was training with him since the age of 15, and that he was training to break 3:24 and 3:40 that summer.
It is only the act of doing something that leaves a trace of evidence. Not doing something, doesn't leave evidence.
So you've constructed a nonsensical scenario in which you'll never be convinced. And so I ask, what is the point of this thread?
Lol, what are you talking about? Proof can't be established for El G in either direction, what we have to go on as Trollism stated is circumstantial evidence, and in El G's case, there is probably more of that than any other male middle-distance runner in history who never got popped.
To give an example, I admit that Coe's 'blood disorder' had me feeling he may have been a doper, but then I read the arguments that the blood doping in the 70's and 80's was almost universally autologous (excuse the spelling), and highly unlikely to result in an infection (that's the primary reason it was universally used). Then there was the Finnish newspaper that claimed Coe had failed a test and that was the reason he withdrew from the team for Helsinki. But others pointed out that the journalist in question had a history of just flatly making things up.
I'm willing to have my mind changed, I just don't see the slightest reason in the case of El G. In fact, over time, I come across even more circumstantial evidence that builds the case that he was a doper. For example, this morning reading an archived Sports Ilustrated article from 2000 in which his coach Kada states that he (EL G) was training with him since the age of 15, and that he was training to break 3:24 and 3:40 that summer.
Oh, you're a stupid person? My mistake. I don't know why I even bothered commenting.
A word of advice; don't start a sentence with "Lol" if you want to be taken seriously. Perhaps don't write it at all.
"Does anybody here genuinely believe El G was clean?"
Letsrun asked the faithful masses what they believed in 2014, and again in 2023.
In 2014, the response for El G was 43% "clean". In 2023, the response was 26% "clean".
The question was 'genuinely' believe. Yes votes from those surveys are made up of bots and shills, and people like a previous commentator who wants everybody (kids included) doping with carcegenic drugs for his entertainment.
Nobody has presented a serious case yet. The best that has been come up with is 'he never tested positive', ignoring the fact that he retired as soon as tests came in, despite at his peak in terms of ability to command appearance money and sponsorships.
I seriously doubt if there is anybody here who genuinely believes he was clean.
Is your Coevett handle banned again?
Applying your standard to yourself:
- There is no reason to think that any of the "clean" votes were disengenious beliefs.
- No one has made a serious case that El G doped either.
As someone else pointed out, both blood and urine tests for EPO were developed for the Sydney Olympics in 2000, and El G retired long after that in 2006. These are literally not the same years.
Furthermore, El G turned Pro in 1994, PR'd in the 1500m in 1998 and the mile in 1999, and participated in three Olympics. This doesn't look like a career artificially cut short at its peak.
Oh my gosh, el g is not only a blatant doper, he is one of the MOST BLATANT dopers in track and field history (up there with Flojo, Ma's Army, jarmila, Marita koch)
To think El G didn't dope is to look at Barry Bonds, with his enormous skull and bulging forearms smash 460 foot home runs into the SF bay and think "yeah, this guy is totally clean"
He was probably running one of the most intense and hardcore doping regimens known to man. EL G was on so many illegal performance enhancing drugs I'm surprised he is still alive.
Today 7/7 marks the 23rd anniversary 7/7/1999, of ElG’s 3:43.13 mile WR. If that’s not enough, next Thursday 7/14 will mark the 24th year anniversary of ElG’s 3:26.0, over the slightly shorter 1500m. EPO is a helluva drug.
https://imgur.com/VMFL4jYPlease find attached an extremely crappy graph I made showing all who have run sub-3:30 more than once. (There are 18 others who ran under 3:30 a single time, which I excluded only because it would ha...
I don't know how I missed it, but I just found out El G ran 3:26 5 times. I only knew about the fastest 2, but it turns out he ran 3:26 again in '98, and then twice in 3 weeks in 2002, over 4 years removed from his first. Her...
theghostofnoahngeny10/12/2022 12:10pm EDT3 years ago
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cjnj_XhLZbQ/?next=%2FAnyone have any idea why El Guerrouj will be at this meet? It doesn't make sense at all. Is he getting an appearance fee?
Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win a LetsRun t-shirt.Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win one of 10 LetsRun t-shirts.
