Wow, people are still buying into the Nike marketing hype surrounding these "supershoes?" Sad. The speed benefits of these spikes are marginal at best, the best thing about them is they're more comfortable imo. I've seen too many people buy them and not get any faster (which would mean they got worse after buying them, according to "supershoe" logic) for me to fall under the supershoe psychosis so many are in.
Fisher's time really isn't that much of a surprise, he's always been a distance running prodigy, and now that he's in a good training situation and running the right events that potential is being fully realized. We're entering into a new era of distance running talent - ENJOY IT, LOSERS!
We're entering into a new era of distance running talent - ENJOY IT, LOSERS!
This ^^^^
Prior to 2010, there had been 1 sub-4 kid in high school in 50-years. Now we have them basically every year. The amount of sub 4:05 kids has doubled over the last 10 years, and the number of sub 4:10 kids each year is nearly 3x what an average year was prior. This has nothing to do with shoes, and everything to do with better talent, training at a higher/smarter level early on. Hence, it forces everyone else to be better as well.
But Rojo doesn't care about that, as he'll tell you it's all the shoes.
We're entering into a new era of distance running talent - ENJOY IT, LOSERS!
This ^^^^
Prior to 2010, there had been 1 sub-4 kid in high school in 50-years. Now we have them basically every year. The amount of sub 4:05 kids has doubled over the last 10 years, and the number of sub 4:10 kids each year is nearly 3x what an average year was prior. This has nothing to do with shoes, and everything to do with better talent, training at a higher/smarter level early on. Hence, it forces everyone else to be better as well.
But Rojo doesn't care about that, as he'll tell you it's all the shoes.
Exactly. Remember when Verzbicas, Maton, Fisher, Hunter, Slagowski, and Brown all run sub 4 within 5 years? That was before super spikes. I'm pretty sure Daschbach was sub 4 in 2020 without the spikes too.
The painful truth is that US distance running was TRASH for the last 50 years. Now it is AMAZING and people don't want to accept it. Fisher is better than Rupp ever was. He's an absolute animal.
Exactly. Remember when Verzbicas, Maton, Fisher, Hunter, Slagowski, and Brown all run sub 4 within 5 years? That was before super spikes. I'm pretty sure Daschbach was sub 4 in 2020 without the spikes too.
The painful truth is that US distance running was TRASH for the last 50 years. Now it is AMAZING and people don't want to accept it. Fisher is better than Rupp ever was. He's an absolute animal.
Yeah, that's a lot of sub-4s. While it's still early career for most of those guys, it's interesting to note that no one on that list has had close to the success Fisher has had post-HS so far ... Brown and Hunter have shown potential, but nothing like this.
I think wave lights are a bigger difference maker than the shoes. You get the physical benefit of having your pacers run essentially the exact same split for 8k. Then you get the mental benefit of always knowing exactly where you are in relation to the record.
Fisher has an engineering degree and I’m pretty sure he could do the math to figure out his pace from hearing the splits.
I would be willing to bet that under 10% of letsrun posters regularly race in the super spikes at paces that make them actually work (under 4:30?). Galen would have wrecked these guys imo.
Admittedly not a Rupp fan, admittedly a Fisher fan, but this is 100% true. Fisher is not a better runner than Rupp ever was
Why not?
Eh, he's a heel; all sports need one. Coach K just had a season long retirement tour and lost on the court named after him to his unranked rival- ask any Wisconsin, UNC, Kansas fan etc how much they enjoyed this.
Rupp is undoubtedly on the Mt. Rushmore of American distance running. But, to be fair, he isn't personable; his ties to Salazar, regardless of personal beliefs over what Sal did/didn't do, the cloud of doping allegations, and his mystique by means of hardly any public record (social media, interviews, race schedule etc) lend outsiders to view him as uppity, snobbish, or just flippant towards the sport and, moreover, integrity of sport.
He's the quintessential "bad guy", he is Draco Malfoy, he is Ivan Drago.
What will Grant run the rest of the year and where is he in his training? Obviously he needs to go out and destroy his Outdoor 5k pr, but what else? Could we see him power through a 3:32 1500 this year? Will he go for the 5k/10k double again? I'd like to see him go out of country and race the best runners more. See him at Monaco, etc.
No wave light, no perfect weather, no super spikes.
26:44 with a better close.
If it’s not the shoes it’s drugs, if it’s not drugs it’s the track, if it’s not the track it’s the pacers, if it’s not the pacers it’s the technology, if it’s not the technology… well…. maybe they a good time but some runner from the past 30 years could have done it better. Come on guys.
Wow, people are still buying into the Nike marketing hype surrounding these "supershoes?" Sad. The speed benefits of these spikes are marginal at best, the best thing about them is they're more comfortable imo. I've seen too many people buy them and not get any faster (which would mean they got worse after buying them, according to "supershoe" logic) for me to fall under the supershoe psychosis so many are in.
Fisher's time really isn't that much of a surprise, he's always been a distance running prodigy, and now that he's in a good training situation and running the right events that potential is being fully realized. We're entering into a new era of distance running talent - ENJOY IT, LOSERS!
I don't agree. I don't follow the pros that closely, but I do coach d3, where the 20th place 3k indoor time in 2020 would be 49th this year. And they can't all be 5th year covid seniors; only 10 of this year's top are listed as seniors at all. A few clicks and you see that several are in their 4th year, not 5th.
They're not running on tracks that are any more "super" than the ones from 2 years ago. I suppose you could say there's widespread doping in d3, but most people would laugh at you.
The only thing different is that pretty much everyone I've seen break 8:30 this winter has been wearing dragonflys.
Why do people think this? Rupp would consistently finish between 5-8th at worlds in the 10k, with one 2nd place finish in a weak year. (Not a shot at Rupp, you beat who shows up, but Tariku Bekele and a washed Kenensia got 3/4 in this race).
Fisher just finished 5th in an incredibly strong 10k field, taking some huge scalps in the process. He is now even a level above when he did that, as evidenced by him beating the Olympic Silver Medalist two meets in a row. And these arent some bum offseason races, Ahmed just ran a 26:34.
People need to get it through their heads that Fisher is every bit as good as Prime Rupp and probably even better at this point.
until this past weekend we have no one that i know of besides rupp who was a threat at this level (the very highest level). now we have 2. let's celebrate both of them. i hope rupp has a good marathon at world's
over 50% of posters on letsrun are age 18-26 and still running. as a result, most people on this board are completely blind to the benefits these shoes so obviously provide.
the research is clear. The shoes do provide a massive benefit. Not sure if it’s 11 seconds or not over 10k, but it’s not an outrageous number based on the data available.
I'm 28, I still run competitively. I have PRs in varying events dating back to 2015 all the way to this past year. 'Super shoes' for roads came out when I was roughly 24, after I had a couple years of post collegiate running on the roads. Then 'super spikes' in 2020. I've run in the old shoes and the new shoes, I honestly don't think there's a drastic difference in performance. They are way more gentle on your body and lead to less injury but I don't think they make you noticeably faster. Fisher just broke the record by 11 seconds, no way I think they make you run 11 seconds faster in a 5k. Fisher and Ahmed just beat the rest of the field by over 200 meters, guys that will likely be in Eugene this summer. They are just a step above the rest and two of the top 5 runners in the world. Rupp was top 10 a few times on the track on the world/olympic level, including one magical race in London where he got silver. Fisher just placed 5th at the global level, and is now beating Ahmed who has two global medals, a silver and bronze, which is as much as Rupp ever got... Fisher is just better than Rupp now. If Fisher stays at this level or improves for the next 5 or 6 years he will likely get his couple of global medals to match Rupp and have the better times to officially surpass Rupp as best American runner. Fisher was 24 when he placed 5th at the olympics. Rupp was 23 when placing 8th at his first global championship. They are basically on the same trajectory at this point, except Rupp had a slightly more impressive start and Fisher has caught Rupp and may reasonably surpass what Rupp did. It's tough to top a silver medal and bronze, but he's in position to do it. Not many people are running 12:52 indoor 5k and 26:32 10k, even with 'super spikes'. This is the 3rd season they've been available but it's a very short list of people who have run faster in the world than Grant.
You can't compare two entirely different races and say how one athlete would have done in the other. Well not accurately anyway. Way too many variables! Also whose to say Fisher was even running at capacity with his 26:33.. Also the old super spike advantage argument is greatly flawed I believe. People will try to say that with super spikes it's worth 1-1.5 seconds per lap. That would mean Rupp with super spikes would have run a 26:06-26:19 wearing them. Just no lol.
No one knows exactly how much the spikes does, but my estimates for high to world class racing are as following (I'm a 3:40 performer myself and I for sure feel a difference with the new spikes): 800: 0-0,5s (not sure they help here) 1500m 0-2,5s, 3000m 2-5s, 5000m, 5-12,5s, 10000m 10-25s. Rupps time is for sure worth as much as Fishers, and I feel like it's such a shame we got rid of the ability of somewhat fairly comparing times over different eras.
We didn't lose the ability to fairly compare times from different eras. We never had that ability. There is constant improvement from science and technology. Perhaps the new spikes make the past 10 years a time period of higher than average improvement, but our ability to compare Rupp's time to runners before him is just as limited as our ability to compare Fisher's time to Rupp's.
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