10K XC: Mantz vs. Jakob

The ‘Doughboy’ comments are super strange and not at all accurate.

I watched the newest keeping up with the Ingr…

today and Jakob flexed jokingly at one point- thing is, he’s actually quite strong! And the tree trunk legs might be a result of the years of cross country skiing- the other brothers have them as well .

Anyway, calling an Olympic champ fat is weird as heck, especially when he’s nowhere near that. Bekele has looked a bit portly in some of his latter marathons, but never Jakob.

Put it this way Mantz just ran 60:55 for a half marathon. Jakob would run that in his trainers with sweats on

borkendreams wrote:

What is wrong with you people? Attempting to "fat shame" the Olympic champ at 1,500 meters? This site has really jumped the shark.

He's already the best in the world on the biggest stage, and you suggest he could really improve if only he'd shed some pounds?

Perhaps you're being sarcastic, perhaps not. But I keep seeing this being posted, so something is going on here -- including by someone right before the start of the Euro XC championships, saying he probably wouldn't win because he's too big. And then he goes out and clobbers a very talented field.

It must speak to something very odd in many LRC readers perceptions of the sport...top runners need to look emaciated to be accepted as fast, rather than producing fast times to be considered fast.

And we're not even talking fat, if we're being honest. We're talking about muscle.

You lost me at "fat shame" btw

kskxnnx wrote:

And the tree trunk legs might be a result of the years of cross country skiing.

Competitive skiing, and probably any trace of recreational skiing ended with Henrik almost 14 years ago.

Yea, I was really surprised and impressed by Mantz's 60:55. But it's outrageous to compare the two athletes. Jakob is one of the best runners in the world (for certain at 1500-5000m, and possibly further). Mantz is almost certain to never achieve a globally relevant mark on the track, and 60:55, while impressive, is not at all globally relevant.

Flagpole wrote:

Why is this a thread?

As we sit here today, Jakob is a proven world-class commodity.

Mantz may prove himself too...and he's awfully good with a great first pro race, but he's not in Jakob's class yet...not even close for discussion.

Jakob isn't a proven world-class commodity in cross country.

He put in a good effort in the U20 race at World Cross Aarhus, but was put to shame by 11 others. If you click on the names of the finishers ahead of him there, many still don't have top class performances. Like I said earlier in this thread, I'd take Mantz in a "real" cross country race with meaningful hills like the Aarhus course.

Jakob is worse than Ritz and no better than Tegenkamp was in cross country. Mantz would have a good chance taking him on a hard enough course - I'd pick Mantz in any case.

https://www.worldathletics.org/results/world-athletics-cross-country-championships/2001/iaaf-world-cross-country-championships-6949460/men/u20-race/final/result

Didn't Jakob's dad say they don't believe in doing hills recently? Here's a consequence of that - stumbling to an aided (should have been DQ'd) 30th place behind hobby joggers at a hill climb:

https://runningmagazine.ca/trail-running/trail-races/jakob-ingebrigtsen-stoltzekleiven-opp/

neednewdeck wrote:

Jakob is worse than Ritz and no better than Tegenkamp was in cross country. Mantz would have a good chance taking him on a hard enough course - I'd pick Mantz in any case.

https://www.worldathletics.org/results/world-athletics-cross-country-championships/2001/iaaf-world-cross-country-championships-6949460/men/u20-race/final/result

Didn't Jakob's dad say they don't believe in doing hills recently? Here's a consequence of that - stumbling to an aided (should have been DQ'd) 30th place behind hobby joggers at a hill climb:

https://runningmagazine.ca/trail-running/trail-races/jakob-ingebrigtsen-stoltzekleiven-opp/

What a joke. That hill climb has nothing to do with running, xc or otherwise. No Jakob would not be able to set the free solo speed record on El Cap, but he is a generational talent at running middle distance and the talent gap between him and a runner like Mantz is not being leveled by the hills on any NCAA sanctioned xc course.

Hill climbs are not joke, you flat course elitest. Cheptegei would have destroyed in that race. NCAA sanctioned xc course? What about IAAF sanctioned World Cross course, which LR had a great feature on in 2019 when they went to report on it? You conveniently failed to address that.

neednewdeck wrote:

Wise Old Man wrote:

What a joke. That hill climb has nothing to do with running, xc or otherwise. No Jakob would not be able to set the free solo speed record on El Cap, but he is a generational talent at running middle distance and the talent gap between him and a runner like Mantz is not being leveled by the hills on any NCAA sanctioned xc course.

Hill climbs are not joke, you flat course elitest. Cheptegei would have destroyed in that race. NCAA sanctioned xc course? What about IAAF sanctioned World Cross course, which LR had a great feature on in 2019 when they went to report on it? You conveniently failed to address that.

Yes, a joke. I’ve hiked that climb in Bergen. Being able to scramble up that grade has nothing to do with being able to run fast for 10K xc. Scrambling fast up that mountain is irrelevant to the outcome of Mantz v JI over a 10K xc course.

Wise Old Man wrote:

Yes, a joke. I’ve hiked that climb in Bergen. Being able to scramble up that grade has nothing to do with being able to run fast for 10K xc. Scrambling fast up that mountain is irrelevant to the outcome of Mantz v JI over a 10K xc course.

And I've hiked Mt. Marathon. So what? Pointing out Jakob doesn't prepare for hills. If we are talking 10K XC, why not distiguish that from 10K road race or track race by making sure the course has hills:

Refresh your memory of Aarhus course, World Cross 2019:

Refresh your memory of Jakob's performance on said course. (As you'd expect based on his hill preparation):

Refresh your memory of NCAA cross country Mantz win #1 course:

Weird. Why would Jakob prepare for the hills? He planning on racing the UTMB soon?

Laughocity wrote:

Weird. Why would Jakob prepare for the hills? He planning on racing the UTMB soon?

That's a good excuse for him to avoid getting shellacked by Chepetegei and Mantz at the next World Cross Country (whenever that is) by DNSing.

Do you really think Mantz could run away from Jakob? Because he sure as heck can't outkick him. Mantz could not even beat Grant Fisher.

neednewdeck wrote:

Laughocity wrote:

Weird. Why would Jakob prepare for the hills? He planning on racing the UTMB soon?

That's a good excuse for him to avoid getting shellacked by Chepetegei and Mantz at the next World Cross Country (whenever that is) by DNSing.

Wow, you have elevated Mantz to the level of Chep and Kiplimo based on his NCAA wins? If you want to argue that JI can’t hang with the Kenyans and Ugandans in world cross, fair enough. The JI of today is stronger than he was in 2019. I’m just not clear how you could possibly put Mantz in the same conversation.

World XC is just a side show though. UTMB has more cachet.

I'm going to enjoy Cheptegei & Mantz get pummeled by Klecker in the 1500.

Wise Old Man wrote:

neednewdeck wrote:

That's a good excuse for him to avoid getting shellacked by Chepetegei and Mantz at the next World Cross Country (whenever that is) by DNSing.

Wow, you have elevated Mantz to the level of Chep and Kiplimo based on his NCAA wins? If you want to argue that JI can’t hang with the Kenyans and Ugandans in world cross, fair enough. The JI of today is stronger than he was in 2019. I’m just not clear how you could possibly put Mantz in the same conversation.

Cross country is Jakob's worse discipline (not counting hill climbs). The OP probably knows this, and that's what made this a worthy topic. If were were talking 5000m on the track, it wouldn't be a topic, right? Did you click through on the names of the runners who beat him in 2019? There are direct links to PRs, since it's the World Athletics site. Guys same age as him who have current PRs 13:27/28:22 or 13:48 as their best marks. Some are absolute studs now, but many are slower than Mantz or around his ability, or around the ability of people like Kiptoo who Mantz beat decisively at NCAAs two years in a row. The runners he raced were also U20, so they are also stronger than they were in 2019. Plus, from the hype before the race from the Jakob fans before that race, you know they were expecting more from him at that time.

Mantz is on the level of American runners who have placed top 10 at World Cross like Adam Goucher. I think he has a 59:mid 1/2 marathon in him next year.

A second opinion wrote:

Mantz would win on a hilly cross country course, and Ingebritson would probably win on a flat course like they ran yesterday,

SDSU Aztec wrote:

What makes you think Jacob would suck at climbing hills? With his turnover and strength, he could gap Mantz on any hill he wanted. If they ran hill repeats in a workout, Mantz would be embarrassed.

Check the hill at 6:00, 12:00, 18:00, and 23:30 to the finish.

xczvzxcv wrote:

Jakob is not bad at hills but you can see that he would be easily gapped by Kiplimo and Cheptegei and quite a few others on a very hilly xc course like in Denmark at World XC in 2019, where he was in the junior race and still was well beaten to roughly 12th, while Kiplimo and Cheptegei were dominating the senior race over Geoffrey Kamworor.

Under 20 race:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CTPeg0nyC8

Senior race:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V5Eugvn5Wo

That hill is awesome.