To all of you who have been saying the super spikes don't work, did you see that? 10 guys just broke the NCAA meet record. LOL.

Trucker Hat wrote:

These guys now have shoes that knock 15-20 seconds off a 10k

It's more than 15-20 seconds.

It's the vaccine which makes everybody faster.

Nobody talks about that.

As others have said, the meet record is relatively weak because championship 10ks tend to be tactical. Has there been a single past NCAA 10k where someone committed to pushing the pace and towing the field along like Kiptoo did? It's misleading to compare the times from an essentially rabbited race in perfect conditions to past jogfests.

I'm sure the shoes give runners an advantage. But you need to give some credit to the athletes and appreciate the special race circumstances. Last night, we got to see the potential of many athletes in optimal pacing and weather. Let's say the shoes give a 1 second/lap advantage over previous models, which is likely an overestimate. What would you be saying if 10 collegians ran 28:17 or faster in the same race with regular spikes? That would still be a historically deep race.

I understand the concern that superspikes lead to inflated times, but that shouldn't dominate the discussion of a race, especially a championship. We arguably just saw one of the greatest NCAA 10ks ever, and a running website should recognize and promote that.

I know squat about distance, but a few thoughts:

The record maybe wasn’t as great as some think it was. What’s the next-oldest NCAA record? Shot? It has stood up during track improvements, training improvements, PED improvements, nutrition improvements, etc. Maybe none of those things matter so much in distance, because all of a sudden, after 40 years, everybody breaks it? Are you saying that in those 40 years, there was never a fast-paced race?

Maybe this race was the unicorn, the confluence of great conditions: great temperature, thinner air, oxygen from the trees, great new spikes, great new track, more than one or two fast guys in the race, optimum wind conditions, Olympic year, etc.

Also, while sprints, jumps, throws (with the exception of shot) aren’t going crazy, distance records are falling like dominoes. What is the noticeable difference? Footwear. Either that, or we are in a period of seriously compromised testing for whatever distance people can use, like happened in JAM sprinting a while back—BUT while sprint excellence was confined to those at the very top in JAM, this distance excellence seems to be spread through the ranks, and across many countries. What is universally available? Footwear.

I started another thread asking if anybody here actually uses them, and so far I think only Igy has responded—then I found the thread below. I would be interested in hearing more personal experiences. I might get a pair, on the basis that they might make running easier on my body.

Here’s the older thread:

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=10442236

IllinoisRunner wrote:

As others have said, the meet record is relatively weak because championship 10ks tend to be tactical. Has there been a single past NCAA 10k where someone committed to pushing the pace and towing the field along like Kiptoo did? It's misleading to compare the times from an essentially rabbited race in perfect conditions to past jogfests.

Here's one from 2011. Maybe the weather was a little warmer then, I'm not sure.

Webbster wrote:

Trucker Hat wrote:

These guys now have shoes that knock 15-20 seconds off a 10k

It's more than 15-20 seconds.

Eh I’d need some data for that. It was like 2-3 minutes for a marathon in the VF, but the VF stack is about 2x higher so way more foam, and the marathon is 4x as long. I would think 10-20 might be fair? Could be less given there stack is regulated on the track in ways it is not on the roads.

Dever’s time was still only something like 16th best ever. You can’t rule out Kiptoo pacing the field to fast times. I doubt that has happened before. No doubt shoes help, how much is still up for debate.

d in the top corner wrote:

Dever’s time was still only something like 16th best ever. You can’t rule out Kiptoo pacing the field to fast times. I doubt that has happened before. No doubt shoes help, how much is still up for debate.

I agree -- plenty of collegiate athletes have been capable of runs in the 27s but runners are, for good reason, hesitant to go all-out in a championship 10,000 given many of them are doubling back in the 5,000 and leading 15-25 laps is a tough pill.

The shoes are faster and better. No doubt. Again, though, the majority of the advantage of the road shoes is the insane stack height, which doesn't exist on the track. If the shoes were 30+ seconds in a 10K I think we'd be seeing 3:24-25 1500s by now, regular 12:35-40 5000s, etc. It's just not happening. The advantage is less than the people who seem to have their joy of sport sucked away by the existence of the shoes are suggesting.

When have you ever seen someone actually try and break the NCAA 10k meet record? Never, it never happens.

Lol Nur ran faster today in Adidas spikes than the so-called cheater spikes. Coming into this weekend, Mantz and Nur were ranked 1st and 2nd in the standings, so Nur would have finished finished where he was supposed to except this Patrick Dever guy just made a HUGE upset. That should be the theme of this thread, not spikes.

Just compare the results to years past. 2019 was slow because it was in texas, but 2018 in Oregon was normal.

1st - 28:34

5th - 28:39

6th - 28:40

7th - 28:55

8th - 29:13

12th - 29:32

Even if you would consider it a really strategic race, people were still getting DROPPED at a slow pace. This year, 29:32 was 22nd.

If shoes plus wavelight together give about 1 sec per lap this would put cheptegeis and gideys wrs into a considerably less spectacular realm. Even 1 sec/1k would put them in perspective.

So no runner or group of runners can ever have another break through because the shoes will get the credit?

The times posted at the NCAA men's 10,000 are fast but on a world class level average. Maybe the U.S. is finally catching up. And if people say it is only because of the shoes then the U.S. really is a second rate distance running country.

Webbster wrote:

Trucker Hat wrote:

These guys now have shoes that knock 15-20 seconds off a 10k

It's more than 15-20 seconds.

I think it’s at least 3 seconds per mile but yeah it might be as much as 5 seconds per mile. The longer the distance the more impact it has. Thus why were seeing all these 5k and 10k records go down.

the race was rabbited for the first time

you sir are an idiot wrote:

Just compare the results to years past. 2019 was slow because it was in texas, but 2018 in Oregon was normal.

1st - 28:34

5th - 28:39

6th - 28:40

7th - 28:55

8th - 29:13

12th - 29:32

Even if you would consider it a really strategic race, people were still getting DROPPED at a slow pace. This year, 29:32 was 22nd.

You also have to consider that 2018 didn't really have a lot of quality runners in the field. Kiprop, who got 2nd in the 10k that year, got 14th this year running a faster time. The quality of the fields this year are just good, why can't people see that XD

Abide wrote:

Does this cofounder regularly troll?

Yes

Frankly its shocking to me that for people who claim to know running, y'all think its quite normal for all the fast times we are seeing and WR's being broken and not think that the shoes have a role to play in this. Its literally staring you in the face. And yet somehow its easier to believe in some magical new training regimen? Or mass doping? Gimme a break. Absolutely no doubt in my mind Rojo will be proven correct on this one.

fxhjb2 wrote:

Look, that record has been around since ‘79 and, in one night, 10 guys break it? Something is up and it isn’t their training.