So how beneficial are the new Nike spikes really?

I hope you are joking. The spikes you wear do not effect performance. Your opponents wasted a bunch of money, by the way.

I have some advice for your next race: try to retain the lead from 1/5 of the race onward. During moments of low inspiration, let your opponents lead, but DON'T let them form a gap! You simply hang onto them for dear life until you get motivated again and retake the lead! You'll be too sore to even run the next day; it works! You just have to dig deep ?.

Another thought, maybe you lack track speed. If you haven't already, I would highly recommend adding several 100 meter sprints in your training and some low-rep heavy-weight lifting. Good luck!

Sham 69 wrote:

I hope you are joking. The spikes you wear do not effect performance. Your opponents wasted a bunch of money, by the way.

I have some advice for your next race: try to retain the lead from 1/5 of the race onward. During moments of low inspiration, let your opponents lead, but DON'T let them form a gap! You simply hang onto them for dear life until you get motivated again and retake the lead! You'll be too sore to even run the next day; it works! You just have to dig deep ?.

Another thought, maybe you lack track speed. If you haven't already, I would highly recommend adding several 100 meter sprints in your training and some low-rep heavy-weight lifting. Good luck!

Have you tried a pair of Air Vics on? They definitely do make a difference.

As much of a difference as OP thinks? Probably not, but definitely something.

The spikes have some minor benefit, but the real benefit is from better training by using shoes with better foams (Zoom X, Pebac, etc.)

running 6min miles like david45 wrote:

It's the shoes, but not the spikes.

Better shoes mean more training miles with less strain, resulting in better race times. That's why the Nike Revolution 4 is the shoe all the pros are using.

I own a pair of dragonflys. Massive difference. I would say several seconds in the mile at least. Probably 3-7. I regularly do the same workouts with my college team and have been easily been able to compare my splits with various spikes at the same effort levels

Not much. The Dragonfly certainly take some heat off the feet and legs in those later laps, but anyone claiming a multiple second-per-mile advantage either wasn't racing to their potential, or enjoying the effects of a powerful PED: placebo. The spikes are good and I recommend the Dragonfly (didn't like the air vic, it was too heavy and gimmicky for me). Get some if you want them and it won't break the bank, but you're not gonna be at any significant disadvantage if you don't. As for your race, they were just the better men that day. Maybe they were on and you weren't, or maybe they had trained harder. Own it, and fight harder to beat them.

You could also try legal doping: Ketones, caffeine, and collagen supplements. All three are used by elite runners (watch the athlete special on youtube and he'll talk about it with his work with Brooks Beasts).

nike shill wrote:

Not much. The Dragonfly certainly take some heat off the feet and legs in those later laps, but anyone claiming a multiple second-per-mile advantage either wasn't racing to their potential, or was enjoying the effects of a powerful PED: placebo. The spikes are good and I recommend the Dragonfly (didn't like the air vic, it was too heavy and gimmicky for me). Get some if you want them and it won't break the bank, but you're not gonna be at any significant disadvantage if you don't. As for your race, they were just the better men that day. Maybe they were on and you weren't, or maybe they had trained harder. Own it, and fight harder to beat them.

Fixed a typo, and to the FreshmanRecordHolder - caffeine is great! I haven't tried ketosis or collagen, but neat.

Please don't try ketosis.

Especially not for a race!

It obviously varies per runner, their previous efficiency and effort level for various distances but the rule of thumb could be one second per lap (on a 400m track) with less time gained the faster you are going

Doesn't sound like much but it adds up.

And the flat-earthers around here will insist the shoes don't do anything and it's just magical new workouts like they've done for the past five years with vaporflys since the 2016 trials unless years later there are so many endless broken records and PRs that we just ignore their noise and know the truth.

Just don't compare your times when using them to your or others times when not using them.

We're in that golden window of cheaterfly where not yet everyone is using them and old records are still being compared as if they are the same, so when the technology stops improving then by the end of the decade we'll be back to records just sitting idle forever.

Then you can always go run on a super-track like the mondo at Doha and Tokyo for more seconds.

I would say it's 1 second per thousand on the track (1.5s for 1600 and 3s for 3200). When you apply that conversion to the performances this past year or so they are still extremely impressive, but they are more realistic.

They should just make a track where the air is blowing at 1.99m/s behind you the whole time.

One second per lap based on what? Did it hurt to pull that out of your behind? Obviously Vaporfly times are different than times set in traditional flats as they provide a cut and dried, well researched advantage of at least 4% to economy and are a completely new breed of shoes. Until some research comes out saying that these spikes provide such an advantage, promoting these claims is silly and only spreads misinformation. Yes, the spikes are better than previous pairs, but you can't just choose to deduct a second per lap without looking ridiculous or at least hasty, until some non-anecdotal research comes out backing you up. That's 12 seconds in a 5,000 and 25 in a 10,000.

I tried a pair on the other day and they feel insane. Vaporflys feel like you squish the foam and then the foam is just super responsive, but Drangonflys feel like the spike plate or whatever is a literal spring, they are so bouncy. I haven't raced in them yet, but you're crazy if you think they're not helping.

Do we not all think it's gotten a bit ridiculous now? I'm not criticising any high school athletes for wearing these shoes, especially if their competition is but where do we draw the line? Manual propulsion? I mean I'm sure someone could develop a shoe that would blast you around the track but we are kind of getting away from the essence of running here.

I actually don't think these shoes are within the spirit of competition at this point. It is a grey area but you have to draw the line somewhere.

track chick wrote:

Do we not all think it's gotten a bit ridiculous now? I'm not criticising any high school athletes for wearing these shoes, especially if their competition is but where do we draw the line? Manual propulsion? I mean I'm sure someone could develop a shoe that would blast you around the track but we are kind of getting away from the essence of running here.

I actually don't think these shoes are within the spirit of competition at this point. It is a grey area but you have to draw the line somewhere.

My opinion on the matter. Right or wrong, it's how I feel.

nike shill wrote:

track chick wrote:

Do we not all think it's gotten a bit ridiculous now? I'm not criticising any high school athletes for wearing these shoes, especially if their competition is but where do we draw the line? Manual propulsion? I mean I'm sure someone could develop a shoe that would blast you around the track but we are kind of getting away from the essence of running here.

I actually don't think these shoes are within the spirit of competition at this point. It is a grey area but you have to draw the line somewhere.

My opinion on the matter. Right or wrong, it's how I feel.

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=10428295&page=1

Oops, that's page 2. I made the original post, my bad.

First off, huge jumps in performance "seemingly out of nowhere" in high school is perfectly normal. You little nerds are going through the puberty so maturity can make huge gains in performances. Second, the spikes make a difference, no question. From my personal experience so far I'd say it's somewhere between .25-.4 seconds per 400m. Track spikes are already so advanced and the main importance of them is traction. They aren't thick enough, like the road racers, to create that much of a larger lever out of your legs so the difference is not nearly as large. There is also form that effects the spikes--I would assume. They make me feel like I'm not running with my best form, for whatever reason, so that may explain why I feel as though the difference isn't nearly as large for me.

Officialdb wrote:

I own a pair of dragonflys. Massive difference. I would say several seconds in the mile at least. Probably 3-7. I regularly do the same workouts with my college team and have been easily been able to compare my splits with various spikes at the same effort levels

I asked Geoff Burns about. He said he thought it was 2.5 to 3 seconds in a mile for a pro - more for slower people.

I asked a coach about it yesterday and he said it was a game changer. He said an athlete was working out alone during Covid and was running 300s in old spikes and then midway through switched to new spikes. He said the guy went down 2 seconds in the 300 at the same effort level. Do I think it's worth 2 seconds in a 300? No I do not. BUt the athlete was so stunned, he had to call his coach.