Let's tell it like it is wrote:
All one has to do is watch CNN and witness the constant fearmongering - they keep the death count ticker going like they're keeping track of an Olympic medals count.
Those are the absurd Johns Hopkins numbers that show China with fewer than 5,000 deaths.
joedirt wrote:
There are two conditions that are optimal for the transmission of this virus: heating and air conditioning without economizers. The Asian countries you listed still mostly rely on natural ventilation (which provides lots of air changes) to stay cool and do not heat.
While that is true in rural parts of the countries and small towns, Bangkok, Ho Chi Minh City, KL and other cities in the region are crammed with modern skyscrapers - offices, hotels, condos, massive malls, etc. The cities in those countries do not rely on natural ventilation. They could not exist in their present forms. Have you ever been to SE Asia? When I'm there I run the ac almost 24/7.
fun sides wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
The fun side is that the disease is under control in NZ. Being shut off from the rest of the world isn't so bad when you see what the rest of the world is like - especially the US.
That's like saying antarctica has covid under control. Color me unimpressed.
What is unimpressive is your knowledge. NZ is a developed and largely urban nation of 5 million that has had extensive contact with the rest of the world through its tourism sector, which has accounted for 20% of its export earnings. Restricting that influx of visitors and introducing lockdown measures is what has enabled it to control the disease. Its government has acted quickly to respond to the latest outbreak. So how is that like Antarctica?
high school xc coach wrote:
This would have been possible for us if we had perfect walls around our borders and completely stopped all immigration back around January or February.
And lets face it, if Donald Trump ruled our country the way NZ is ruling theirs, people would riot over him being a dictator that would make the BLM rioters look like kids in a squirt gun fight.
But didn't Trump close the borders to people from China? Oh, wait ...
joedirt wrote:
There are two conditions that are optimal for the transmission of this virus: heating and air conditioning without economizers. The Asian countries you listed still mostly rely on natural ventilation (which provides lots of air changes) to stay cool and do not heat. Texas, Florida and much of California rarely heat, which is why their initial spread was limited, whereas the northeast and Europe were hammered. New Zealand rarely requires much of either (similar to coastal regions of Northern California that rarely get terribly hot or cold).
So, this explains why infection rates are so low in India and Brazil. What's that? (Checks worldometer) Oh. I guess you might be completely wrong.
I live in Houston, Texas. We use the heat all the time from late November through early March. Mid winter is typically 60s for highs and 40s for lows. In Dallas, it is 10-15 degrees cooler on average in winter and winter is longer.
New Zealand's winter is mild, but it still gets plenty cold and everyone has heat in their homes.
Initial spread was limited in TX, CA, NZ, etc. because they took lockdown measures very early. In Houston, we had a stay at home order in place within a few days of the health department confirming community spread of the virus in mid March.
Some_Local wrote:
The tourism industry which is significant in NZ has been destroyed. The unemployment rate is much higher than being reported. The gov't has been subsidizing people for some time now and will need to extend its support to keep things from getting really bad.
You cannot isolate yourself in today's world when you depend greatly on other countries to support your population. Whether is food, tourism, business, etc. Eventually, this will reshape who you are as a country and you will have to make changes. It's going to get worse before it gets better, especially when all of those other countries are still battling this thing.
Tourism is, effectively, an export. People from outside the country pay for a visit to the country. The impact of tourism in New Zealand is masked by a merchandise trade surplus which shows the value of exports slightly higher than the value of imports. New Zealand will be one f'd country if tourists never return. Even before COVID-19, New Zealand authorities had started to limit the number of visitors to glaciers on the south island.
El covido wrote:
Muebele wrote:
They get to have live sports, eat in restaurants and live their lives. Color me impressed
They get to play sports with the same 11 people and eat in the same restaurants surrounded by the same 6 people? We've already been doing that. Unimpressed.
Anyway, haven't countries like Belarus been doing that throughout?
You're wrong. NZ has had no restrictions (apart from quarantines at the border) for months. Life has been lived as normal. The present restrictions - which are mainly in Auckland - apply only until midnight Friday.
why so doom and gloom? wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
The fun side is that the disease is under control in NZ. Being shut off from the rest of the world isn't so bad when you see what the rest of the world is like - especially the US.
If I didn't watch tv or listen to the radio I would wonder why so many people are wearing masks and why so many hospitals are sitting empty. So many areas in the US have had no real issue with the virus, you really need to find a different news source.
Over 5 million cases and 163,000 deaths so far (projected to be 300,000 by the end of the year - NZ has had 22 deaths) and an economy in its worst recession since the Great Depression. You need to check your own news sources.
Eradication of COVID is not an option, even for a country with natural advantages like NZ. What is clearly possible is keeping the virus in check so that new outbreaks can be quickly identified and brought under control. That strategy allows you to reopen schools and businesses at levels the US will never be able to achieve because vulnerable populations are forced to stay home in the US due to the high infection rates and big outbreaks keep healthy people at home.
Also, New Zealand has isolated itself by choice to fight the virus. The US is currently isolated because only a small handful of countries will allow travel with the US due to our massive outbreak.
Some_Local wrote:
coe vid wrote:
Maybe it is time that you realize that the virus not going away. Everyone will get it within the next year. But you want to destroy everyone's lives for a generation just to get a few more months before you catch it anyway? Why don't you think about the younger generation instead of thinking about yourself?
This is the point I keep making about NZ. They've cut themselves off from the rest of the world yet people continue to get corona. People who haven't traveled, etc. So, they close things down again.
If the world is to be this way forever, so be it. However, no one has come to the table with a better strategy. I suggest something and get told, oh that's impossible. OK. Thanks. Then i raise a question of what to do if there's no vaccine or effective treatments -- crickets.
The takeaway here is simple. This is going to spread and continue to spread unless a HIGHLY EFFECTIVE vaccine is found or some kind of treatments are developed to get those most at risk through it. This whole plan to open up, lock down, open up, lock down. It doesn't work in the long run.
After 4 cases you decide a strategy that has enabled life to continue as normal in NZ has failed. So who is doing better of those countries that are prepared to sacrifice more lives? Booming economies side by side with the spread of Covid? Like the US, or the UK?
joedirt wrote:
cmon man wrote:
So just like America?
Not exactly. About 20% of the US has already had this and some areas have achieved a level of herd immunity. New Zealand will have to wait until mid 2021 or later on their 20% allocation from COVAX in order to first achieve the level of immunity we are already at (and that is if there is a viable vaccine). COVAX also has lost its funding from the US via the WHO, so a large chunk of their pooled resources will be going to achieve equal distribution to third world nations rather than their own population. They are at least half a year or more behind us in achieving herd immunity from this and will have to keep their economy shut for six months longer than us if the end goal is herd immunity.
There is no herd immunity in the US, as people are able to travel from one state or locality to another. Your health experts are saying you are not even beginning to be over this.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/nowhere-near-herd-immunity-with-covid-19why so doom and gloom? wrote:
Let's tell it like it is wrote:
That's pretty much what the Democrats want to do until they reclaim the WH. The left is really ramping up the fearmongering - they're in the homestretch to the election. They smell blood in the water and are going full throttle to stick it to Trump and reclaim the WH.
All one has to do is watch CNN and witness the constant fearmongering - they keep the death count ticker going like they're keeping track of an Olympic medals count. All their medical experts do is nothing but inject fear & terror as if this was an apocalyptic virus. OTOH, FOX news reports on real threats in this country as the Democratic controlled cities & states are falling victim to ruthless thugs and criminals.
What's going on in Chicago is deplorable - the Mayor has lost complete control of that city. DC is falling prey to violent crime. Portland has lost control of law & order as thugs roam free to prey on incident people. And now the Seattle police chief has resign because of budget cuts and reductions in personnel. People and businesses will be moving out in droves from these out of control Democratic controlled cities. So, we let the Democratic-fueled fear and hysteria of the "virus" scare the living daylights out of us while our cities have become war zones and unrecognizable.
Americans just don't get it - they're in fear of the wrong problem. When will we wake up?
Great post! I'm hoping these Democratic Mayors and Governors get voted out of office and some law and order comes back to these cities and states and we can get back to Pre-George Floyd status.
You mean the Confederacy?
back in my day wrote:
This.
It has proven to be math. Populations appear to recover once reported cases get to 15,000 to 20,000 per million. If they are right that asymptomatic cases are 10x, then 20,000 reported = 200,000 infected or 20% of 1,000,000 which is where heard immunity is sufficient to slow the spread.
NZ is flatting the curve and delaying the pain, not winning. There is no winning.
22 deaths and containment with normal life looks more like winning than a 163k deaths expected to nearly double in 6 months coupled with a crashed economy. I know what I would choose.
The Tree wrote:
runnerch wrote:
Country/total deaths/deaths per million
USA/166,295/502
Vietnam/16/0.2
Thailand/58/0.8
Malaysia/125/4
So maybe you can explain a US death rate that is thousands of times higher in the case of Vietnam.
Sure, I can explain that.
Inaccuracy. Those countries don't even have accurate census systems. If you want, it is very easy to "disappear" in many Asian countries. So when you want to quote the "reported" numbers from a Southeast-Asian country, make sure you can trust their data.
What evidence do you have that the census in those countries is inaccurate? And are you suggesting there are actually a lot more deaths than are reported? I guess that makes Covid-19 even worse than the numbers indicate.
And if the data reported by Vietnam and Thailand is inaccurate, what about Singapore, Taiwan, Japan and S Korea? Are those deaths significantly under-reported also?
back in my day wrote:
This.
It has proven to be math. Populations appear to recover once reported cases get to 15,000 to 20,000 per million. If they are right that asymptomatic cases are 10x, then 20,000 reported = 200,000 infected or 20% of 1,000,000 which is where heard immunity is sufficient to slow the spread.
NZ is flatting the curve and delaying the pain, not winning. There is no winning.
Yup. This!
energeticlotuseater wrote:
So is NZ going to isolate itself from the rest of the world & shutdown the country every time a couple of people test positive for COVID?
In what world is that a sustainable solution?
In what part of the world is the spread of the virus a sustainable solution?
Armstronglivs wrote:
high school xc coach wrote:
This would have been possible for us if we had perfect walls around our borders and completely stopped all immigration back around January or February.
And lets face it, if Donald Trump ruled our country the way NZ is ruling theirs, people would riot over him being a dictator that would make the BLM rioters look like kids in a squirt gun fight.
But didn't Trump close the borders to people from China? Oh, wait ...
He tried to close travel to China very early, but the liberals were shouting xenophobia, racism while trying to impeach him over utter BS. Forget about that part?
Armstronglivs wrote:
why so doom and gloom? wrote:
If I didn't watch tv or listen to the radio I would wonder why so many people are wearing masks and why so many hospitals are sitting empty. So many areas in the US have had no real issue with the virus, you really need to find a different news source.
Over 5 million cases and 163,000 deaths so far (projected to be 300,000 by the end of the year - NZ has had 22 deaths) and an economy in its worst recession since the Great Depression. You need to check your own news sources.
"Economy in its worst since the Great depression. " It could have been, but thanks to Trump, it's not.
wildside wrote:
high school xc coach wrote:
This would have been possible for us if we had perfect walls around our borders and completely stopped all immigration back around January or February.
And lets face it, if Donald Trump ruled our country the way NZ is ruling theirs, people would riot over him being a dictator that would make the BLM rioters look like kids in a squirt gun fight.
This is spot on.
You mean Trump isn't a dictator? A wannabe, at least. If he ruled NZ the way Jacinda Ardern governs (she doesn't "rule" - that's the difference) he might enjoy unprecedented levels of support of the kind she and her government are experiencing as a result of their response to the crisis. But, hey - enjoy your "freedom". Dying must be such a lot of fun, the way you guys embrace it.