GDS has left BTC, cites Houlihan explicitly

Shelby has been practicing by herself as Gabriella said so herself 2:54 seconds into this interview. By all indication seems to be still coached by Schumacher and working out at some of the same public facilities BTC uses (i doubt she is working out at Nike track, many people would have posted on this board about this)

Stafford's obvious concern is does this jeopardize my career by unintentionally committing a violation of WADA rules, which is a reasonable concern.

However I don't understand what difference it makes that Shelby is working out at a public track 2 hours before they use it and is finishing up cooldown as they arrive or having her workout a day before other than to reduce suspicion of association. This doesn't seem like a material difference, just a cosmetic change for the sake of appearance.

From Schumacher's perspective I can see why he would say no, from what we've heard on the halfstep podcast Schumacher travels from Portland to their altitude workouts and would probably prefer to do workouts on the same day rather than extending travel and time away from his family. Thats also a reasonable position.

Based on WADA rules private coaching arrangements are available to athletes serving a doping, whether they should be or not is a totally different conversation.

Schumacher believes in Shelby's innocence and is continuing to support her in a way that is seems to be allowed and GDS has anxiety about opinions of her association and decided to leave.

Sounds like a professional disagreement, where both people did what they thought best. Too much is being made of this.

I choose option number 3:

1) The sport is dirty; competing at a top level internationally in distance running and sprinting is not possible without PEDs and there is zero logical reason to think distance running is different than the sports to which it is most analogous, cycling and cross country skiing.

2) The team is dirty, because it would be pointless to try to compete internationally without doping.

3) Shelby is dirty because the whole team is dirty because the whole sport is dirty.

4) The issue for athletes like GDS is not that Shelby doped but that she got caught and they do not want to openly run afoul of the anti-doping rules or to suffer a loss of image even if they are guilty themselves.

Overall I do not get too worked up regarding doping at the pro level because the alternative is having no chance to compete internationally. Runners like Shleby did not cause the doping problem, but are reacting to it. But I think it stinks for the naturally talented runners who are being cheated and do have to make some really rotten choices if they choose to continue their careers.

If everything were above board, then there should be no reason why BTC’s remaining athletes are not privy to the legal opinions that have allegedly been drafted by Houlihan’s attorneys and/or the Athletics Integrity Unit.

BTC athletes risk bans of their own if they break these rules. Common sense would dictate that you should provide everyone with the necessary information to guarantee compliance.

This is of course all assuming it makes good sense to move forward with this arrangement in the first place. It does not. Common sense would dictate that Schumacher has a duty of care to the full team that precludes his ability to make “private coaching arrangements” with a banned athlete.

I actually agree with RoJo that Schumacher is simply ignorant or dismissive of the PR implications of what he’s doing. Frankly, that’s the only way to explain it. Unfortunately, Schumacher also appears to be ignorant or dismissive of the professional implications of working with a banned athlete.

We’ve seen Morgan McDonald and others talking about how other professionals and NCAA recruits are avoiding BTC in the wake of Houlihan’s suspension. This news will exacerbate that problem; if BTC can’t recruit athletes, then it calls into question why Nike is investing so many resources into their program.

I want to know why jerry and shalane rejected gds request for Shelby to not train at a time that overlaps with the group which is by all means a reasonable request. Cosmetic or not, a clean athlete should have been prioritized first. And I’m getting a little sick of mama shalane pushing her cookbooks and good girl image without addressing this properly

That is a very good summary and I have a feeling is one in keeping the the legal advice all sides have been given.

Also if the two athletes were in close attendance there is nothing to stop then discussing training provided that such was not directed by the club.No real difference from a social gathering …. or do they get banned as well?

You are either blinded by personal connections or you refuse to properly analyze the facts.

* The way S. Houlihan got banned was due to Preponderance of the Evidence. Is there a minute mathematical possibility S. Houlihan did not ingest P.E.D.s? There is a mathematical possibility I will lose 20 pounds over the next seven days. Who would bet that would occur?

* You just stated: She very likely could have. No! You are bringing S. Houlihan's case down to the level of possible Reasonable Suspicion. The evidence against S. Houlihan using P.E.D.s with intent is FAR STRONGER than Reasonable Suspicion and you know it.

* The more you type in regard to S. Houlihan, Jerry and B.T.C., the worse YOU LOOK.

The simplest explanation is that Schumacher and Flanagan have families and therefore don’t want to be effectively doubling their time at practice to accommodate Shelby.

Now, a sensible person might conclude that this is just one of many reasons why it’s inappropriate for them to be engaged in this arrangement in the first place.

I get that they like Houlihan and want to support her, but this isn’t really helping her like they think it might. They should help her find another coach.

So wait Shelby was training with the team like normal Jan '21-june '21? She must have been if the other teammates didn't even know about her ban. Bc If not it would have been glaringly obvious. "Hey why isn't Shelby ever around". Although actually in this case it's more "hey why is Shelby always on the other side of the track?" Or whatever weird grey area they are using right now...

BTC what the f man. That's clear violation. Point blank. Not grey. At all.

Lrc. Prove you are tough on doping. Ask BTC directly. How was Shelby training with the group jan-june 2021. Seems like gds would actually answer this question. If rupp was found to be training under Salazar you would write a piece excoriating them. And digging much deeper. It's time to keep digging. You're on to something. And what the other poster said about the burrito truck and not warning the other athletes. That's a really good point.

Taro are you rojo?

Considering how much of a scandal you made it out to be that Mark Block was at the 2012 Olympic Trials, your nonchalant attitude to this is incredibly hypocritical.

https://www.letsrun.com/2012/block-0701.php

maybe because you are?

+1

This comes up once in a while. Her provisional suspension was largely ignored (she even went into training camp in early 2022 with BTC), and thus should not count towards her four year ban.

And those who actively supported her during those five months, e.g. coached her, should get in trouble for it. But apparently, some people are above the code.

Just noting one thing with this rojo, all the other athletes you mentioned showed huge promise at the 1500/mile as juniors. Cranny ran 4:10 for the 1500 in HS (old spikes), Fisher (3:59.38), and GDS (4:07 at age 19). They all went to lower mileage, conservative systems for college/post (Stanford with Milt, GDS with Andy Young). Under Jerry they stretched out that natural speed and excelled at 3,000 and 5,000 boosting their mileage up a large amount with long workouts, altitude trips etc. You can see this phenomenon with Lopez Lomong as well. Shelby seems to be the exception where she made a quantum leap in the 1500, too. Sure, Cranny/Fisher are better at 1500/mile than when they started but neither of them are running 3:57 or 3:29 that line up with their 5,000 times, respectively. Shelby got busted for Nandrolone. Not EPO or whatever.

It went from 2016 where she was moved up to the 5,000 and that looked like her event. 2017 no reason to believe anything had changed. She comes in 2018 looking incredibly lean with a superhuman kick and dropping huge chunks of time in an event which is typically a young man or woman's game. There's no insane 800 abilities to explain this, either. It's not like she didn't have ample 1500 races in 2016-17 either. She just was a changed athlete in 2018. More powerful and a different force in the 1500.

Since you quoted the end of my post, I will reply.

1) Thinking about it, you are right. Jerry and Shalane would not try to effect change in the anti-doping process while Shelby has her last appeal pending. Also, with the politics so dirty, if they did try to start a campaign for anti-doping reform, it is possible their other athletes would be genuinely falsely accused of doping. Sabotage their sample, etc. Who knows? No one can really predict what unscrupulous people will do. I just wish there were a movement to improve/reform the anti-doping process. As for Shelby, I personally think she may have taken a contaminated supplement and no longer had any pills left over because she was notified >30 days after her drug testing sample was taken.

2) I disagree with you that the situation described by GDS is just bad PR. From what I have read, IMO Jerry and Shalane are being arrogant and disrespectful to their non-banned athletes. They could make small changes so Shelby's workouts don't overlap with the other athletes. And why aren't the other athletes allowed to read whatever Shelby's lawyers and AIU or whomever have written about what she can and cannot do in terms of training. Is it considered attorney work product protected by confidentiality? If they were allowed to read it, I think that would show respect and alleviate anxiety for the other athletes.

Peace Rojo,

blue sky

Let me suggest another angle on this story entirely:

In making her move back to Canada, GDS may be leaving one ethical grey area behind only to encounter another.

Trent Stellingwerf was a prominent member of the integrated support team at the University of Guelph under disgraced and lifetime-banned coach Dave Scott Thomas. This group has been very credibly accused of athlete abuse by numerous female alums. In fact, Stellingwerf, as a young nutrition scientist more than a decade ago, owed much to Dave Scott Thomas for his entre into the upper tiers of athletics IST (mere technical competence of not nearly enough to make it into this world). To date, he has said nothing at all about his years working closely with DST, or his role within the Guelph IST. He's not legally required to, of course, but ethics are not about meeting legal requirements; they are about doing the right thing and being seen to have done so.

GDS is arguably the most principled, articulate, and politically conscientious athlete in global athletics. It's not at all surprising that she's been virtually alone in taking such a professionally and athletically costly stand against the ethical parsing going on at Bowerman around the Houlihan situation. As someone said above, she's the antithesis of the "happy robot" so many of her colleagues are happy to appear as.

I wonder if GDS will require the same ethical clarity of Stellingwerf as she has of Schumacher and BTC. The aforementioned Guelph alums are, as we speak, demanding that their alma mater conduct a full, proper, and independent investigation of the abuse they claimed to have suffered at the hands of DST and his IST, and that was systematically ignored by those responsible for protecting them. Canadian athletics being a much smaller world, doing so would by more difficult than taking a stand against Schumacher and Bowerman. But if anyone has it in her, it would be GDS.

*Fair enough, “kicking her teammates” and “burning down the house” are perhaps not fair comments, but regardless, her actions have negatively impacted her former teammates. She certainly understood that this would be the result - and perhaps that was her intent.
*And “Dude,” you are either her husband, agent, or a verified genius, as you appear to have soooo much insight into the race plan, indoor track dynamics, tactics, etc., etc., but the fact remains that she made no effort to assist at the front and left it to her teammate to tow her around the track. This was a record attempt not a race. That might all be fine, but she clearly benefitted from association with the BTC and should have considered this when issuing her departure statement (see above.)
*And requesting clarification from USADA, WADA AIU, can be done anonymously without implicating anyone, so your points have no relevance.

Regardless, thank you for your passionate response.

She gave the team ample opportunity for this to not “negatively affect” them. I can’t say the same for Shelby.