Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston?

To anyone who owns one of these - are you able to download the "raw" GPS data from those watches? Because you would have a bona fide genius in both GPS and programming to figure out how to fake that file. You would need to figure out the equations to describe all the satellite orbits, and then the exact readings from each satellite necessary to produce the thousands of waypoints that would describe your course.

You mean a KLM file? You can download them from Garmin Connect, & probably from Nike+... Yeah Garmin lets you have the data in TCX, GPX, & KLM. I'm sure you could phony up a plausible file but it would be tough getting the metadata right. Maybe not impossible, but hugely time consuming.

To me the most damning evidence is that a tweeting, blogging, high tech runner doesn't just post the track the minute questions are raised. I've run like 10 marathons over the past five years & I could produce a mountain of evidence - photos, splits, spectator witnesses, guys I ran with & high fived at the finish vouching for me, the Garmin activity webpage, indicative build up races - for every one. Who says you can't convict with circumstancial evidence? I vote guilty guilty guilty!

I hope I'm reincarnated as a wolf in a pack.

Beastly wrote:

In regards to the photos...I tried to look at a few runners around him because I'm curious how he could avoid all shots, and there's a guy fairly near his finish time (runner No. 1444) who also only has finishing photos. If you search more though you can find him in another shot, but his number is all messed up so it wasn't ID'd.

But here's another guy near him that only had a finishing shot so I guess it's somehow possible. Seems unlikely though, but playing a little devil's advocate.

http://www.racephotonetwork.com/QPPlus/Proofs.aspx

Bib # 1444 has half PR of 1:27, has run multiple 1:28 halfs and a sub-19 5K. I'd say he is a legit 3:10 marathoner.

Mike Rossi, not so much.

Looking at the picture of Rossi and I don't see a 3:11 marathoner. He looks like a 4 hour type finisher to get a medal guy.

Beastly wrote:

In regards to the photos...I tried to look at a few runners around him because I'm curious how he could avoid all shots, and there's a guy fairly near his finish time (runner No. 1444) who also only has finishing photos. If you search more though you can find him in another shot, but his number is all messed up so it wasn't ID'd.

But here's another guy near him that only had a finishing shot so I guess it's somehow possible. Seems unlikely though, but playing a little devil's advocate.

http://www.racephotonetwork.com/QPPlus/Proofs.aspx

But this guy doesnt only have finishing shots, he has others along the way?

Mike?

...

To me the most damning evidence is that a tweeting, blogging, high tech runner doesn't just post the track the minute questions are raised. I've run like 10 marathons over the past five years & I could produce a mountain of evidence - photos, splits, spectator witnesses, guys I ran with & high fived at the finish vouching for me, the Garmin activity webpage, indicative build up races - for every one. Who says you can't convict with circumstancial evidence? I vote guilty guilty guilty!

They got Aaron Hernandez on circumstantial evidence.

Behaving in a way that doesn't violate somebody's legal rights just makes you not a criminal.

Being a decent human being has a somewhat higher standard.

HTH.

True. If everything that was immoral was also illegal there would be no virtue left in this world. Stone me to death now for posting a google cached photo from a public blog depicting a child being hugged by her dad....

Bored at work wrote:

Beastly wrote:

In regards to the photos...I tried to look at a few runners around him because I'm curious how he could avoid all shots, and there's a guy fairly near his finish time (runner No. 1444) who also only has finishing photos. If you search more though you can find him in another shot, but his number is all messed up so it wasn't ID'd.

But here's another guy near him that only had a finishing shot so I guess it's somehow possible. Seems unlikely though, but playing a little devil's advocate.

http://www.racephotonetwork.com/QPPlus/Proofs.aspx

But this guy doesnt only have finishing shots, he has others along the way?

Mike?

Sorry this glitches when you are already on the site to show you the last person you looked up

Go over to the 92.5 XTU Facebook page and at least you can post a comment to ask good ole Mike to explain himself. Do it under the Broad Street run post.

Bored at work wrote:

Beastly wrote:

In regards to the photos...I tried to look at a few runners around him because I'm curious how he could avoid all shots, and there's a guy fairly near his finish time (runner No. 1444) who also only has finishing photos. If you search more though you can find him in another shot, but his number is all messed up so it wasn't ID'd.

But here's another guy near him that only had a finishing shot so I guess it's somehow possible. Seems unlikely though, but playing a little devil's advocate.

http://www.racephotonetwork.com/QPPlus/Proofs.aspx

But this guy doesnt only have finishing shots, he has others along the way?

Mike?

No, #1444 only has finish line shots. But his Athlinks page proves he is legit. Unlike Mike Rossi.

But the whole world is out to get Mike and Athlinks is in on it.

letshelp the cheater wrote:

You're thinking way too much.

Generating a fake 3:11 GPS file is extremely easy. You just download a file from Garmin Connect from somebody who has run the same course. Then you alter it to match your desired time with:

http://www.digitalepo.com

Your welcome.

Interesting. Here's what a sample TCX file looks like:

I'm guessing the EPO program just alters the waypoint timestamps by a fixed percentage, that would be the easiest way to fake it. Now all he has to do is find another runner who also had a Garmin watch, had approximately the same gun time delay, bribe them for their data, oh and edit all the metadata exactly right so it looks like it was his watch that produced the data.

Beastly wrote:

In regards to the photos...I tried to look at a few runners around him because I'm curious how he could avoid all shots, and there's a guy fairly near his finish time (runner No. 1444) who also only has finishing photos. If you search more though you can find him in another shot, but his number is all messed up so it wasn't ID'd.

But here's another guy near him that only had a finishing shot so I guess it's somehow possible. Seems unlikely though, but playing a little devil's advocate.

http://www.racephotonetwork.com/QPPlus/Proofs.aspx

I did a similar search for people in front of and behind Rossi and also spotted that runner. But you can also easily find 5 pictures of him in the "Male - Lost and Found" category. And just for point of reference, if you look that runner up on Athlinks, his peripheral times are totally in line with a 3:10 marathon: a 1:28 half, an 18:40 5K and a 39 minute 10K in the year before the race. It is patently obvious to anyone who runs that Rossi is a complete fraud.

Bib # 1444 has half PR of 1:27, has run multiple 1:28 halfs and a sub-19 5K. I'd say he is a legit 3:10 marathoner.

Mike Rossi, not so much.

What that other guy can run in other races is inconsequential to the case. However the fact that there is at least one other runner running a similar time at the Via Marathon has no photos on the course either is a valid point and should be considered. Given that it has happened to at least one other person besides Mike Rossi devalues the evidence of no photos on the course supporting the cheating claim.

The most damning evidence to day is the complete shut-down of all social media channels of the guy and the lack of GPS data from the claimed marathon and the total lack of races with equivalent performances before or since the Via Marathon. You can be a runner, you can get newbie gains but there should be a clear and obvious track record of it. Going from 4+ to 3:43 while dropping your 5K to 22 minutes seems reasonable. Running a 3:11 out of the blue in the middle of all this? Not a chance.

As for file fixing, sure, you can fix TCX and GPX files, but it's a lot harder to edit a Nike workout that was directly uploaded to the server from the watch as well as an original binary FIT file that gets put in Garmin Connect.

You don't have to be a coach or a fast runner to know if you can't run a half marathon at 7:19 per mile pace you will not run a marathon at 7:19 pace.

I'm well aware of all the posts about this topic.

from Bart Yasso

Is runner 1444 the only runner without pics other than finish line pics?

Actually 1444 has pics in the lost and found according to other posters. So is there another example of a runner without pics?

GregTR wrote:

What that other guy can run in other races is inconsequential to the case. However the fact that there is at least one other runner running a similar time at the Via Marathon has no photos on the course either is a valid point and should be considered. Given that it has happened to at least one other person besides Mike Rossi devalues the evidence of no photos on the course supporting the cheating claim.

e server from the watch as well as an original binary FIT file that gets put in Garmin Connect.

You can find multiple pictures of 1444 in the lost and found but none of Mike Rossi.

think of it this way. Could a 2:4x guy drop to a 2:11 on the "race of his life". Absolutely not. I understand it's different with hobby joggers in the 3-4 hour range but still, the decrease in time is so dramatic it's impossible.

Torontooo wrote:

No, #1444 only has finish line shots. But his Athlinks page proves he is legit. Unlike Mike Rossi.

#1444 also has a folded up bib that couldn't be read, and his shirt is drenched and hanging loose. There are more shots of him on page 6 of the lost & found as well. Rossi managed to keep his bib pressed perfectly flat and his shirt nice and dry throughout the race.