kyleohbrien wrote:
*What are the most prestigious/most competitive ultramarathons in the world to win?
UTMB, Western States 100, Leadville 100, Hard Rock 100, Speed Goat
*What are the hardest course/world records to break in ultra running?
UTMB, Hard Rock 100.
sorry but cmon...Leadville has two or three elite runners each year, and hardrock is about the same. speedgoat is a training run for most of the top finishers, and 5th place could be an hour behind the leader. hardly competitive.
I thought it was already an established consensus that ultras are for slow people who can't thrive on the roads so hope to impress people just by running longer.
Agree with other postings that it's a huge topic with lots of variables. Will just provide a couple extra bits I didn't see mentioned already.
1 - JFK 50 has a lot of history, for military, for POTUS JFK wanting the country to be fit, and it has a guy with 49 finishes who tried for his 50th finish this year but couldn't make the time cutoffs. Has some sections along the AT towards the beginning. And of course Walmsley has the CR. Think it's a mix of singletrack (AT), gravel tow path, and road, but it definitely trends easy/fast.
2 - in an appeal to simplicity, it can be desirable to have a race that simply runs a trail and is finished, instead of having silly out and backs and extra loops just to hit a certain typical distance, like 50k, 50 mi, 100k, 100 mi. Like hey, there's a trail, let's do the trail, and see who gets to the end first. One I just did like that is the Whiskey Basin 90k (ish) in Arizona. I've also read the pretty new "No Business 100" in Stearns, Kentucky is a single loop course. Also a certain appeal in the point to point runs. I think both tomorrow's Madeira Island Ultra Trail (MIUT) and the classic difficult Diagonale des Fous on Reunion Island are like that...could be wrong on the Diagonale.
3 - I've heard both Tarawera and Old Ghost ultras in New Zealand are crazy scenic, though as noted by previous postings depends on your preferred environs. In my home area of Northern Colorado, Nick Clark has been putting on a super scenic race with growing interest - the Never Summer 100k (closer to 64 miles I think) in the Rawah and Never Summer Mountains in between Fort Collins and Steamboat Springs.
4 - stage races like Marathon des Sables (MdS) should be discussed. Goretex Trans Rockies Run. I think there's a new MdS style stage race in Peru that was supposed to be pretty scenic, remote, and a valuable addition to a fairly scant South American trail ultra scene.
5 - I figured for a long time that Matt Carpenter's Leadville 100 record of 15:42 was about as untouchable as they came, like his Pikes Peak Marathon record...but looks like Rob Krar ran 15:51 last year.
6 - As far as GOAT, we'd be remiss not to mention Kilian. And the dude does some crazy skimo stuff (set a 24 hr vert record of like 77,000 feet) and speed ascents (his debated Everest summits, Kili, others). Never met the guy, but seen plenty of video and he seems humble and that he just really enjoys being out there. During periods, has raced really frequently at ultra distances and done really well. And gets lots of tough points for finishing Hardrock a few years ago running the last 85 or 90 miles or something with a dislocated shoulder or elbow.
Macpac Motatapu in New Zealand (south island).
https://motatapu.com/macpac-motatapu/
It is an INCREDIBLE event. Full weekend. On the same day is the mountain bike race, 51km ultra, and the triathlon. Following day is the marathon and shorter distance races. Endurance athlete junkies all around.
Elevation profile is pretty intense.
https://www.doc.govt.nz/contentassets/7984f30c3db341c181107319ac98acf7/motatapu-profile-480web.jpg
It isn't a well known event internationally. I was fortunate enough to do the ultra with a friend during my undergrad years when I was studying abroad in NZ.
Beautiful scenery, kiwi hospitality, and a well put on event makes it an incredibly day/weekend.
dbsquirtNXC21 wrote:
I thought it was already an established consensus that ultras are for slow people who can't thrive on the roads so hope to impress people just by running longer.
That's the consensus of ignorant people. My experience has been that most ultra runners and trail runners also run and race on the roads and sometimes the track.
While it may certainly be easier to win the biggest ultras compared to the top road races, it would be just as easy to win a less competitive road race. An example would be Chris Mocko who has been running ultras for a few years. He has won the last 4 marathons he's run. He is even going back and forth between trail 100ks and road marathons.
I am sure if you research most ultra or trail racers, you can find results from them on the roads.
Other than trying to educate some other idiots that like to bash ultra runners here, this thread is a waste of Hokas resources as there are enough sites (like irunfar) that have all the information one would need if they are interested in trail and ultra running,
Pleased to see some of the discussion. I'll check more in morning. I couldn't believe it today when I was scrolling the twitter of Jim Walmsley and saw he was rejected from the lottery for an ultra this year. Just such a different scene if a guy wants to run a race for free and is one of the best in the world and can't get in.
Podcast is up with Sage Canaday as guest. Maybe early next week we'll push out the Sage portion of podcast separately and type up some of his quotes.
LetsRun.com wrote:
It's time for LetsRun.com to really try...
We all know the answers to these questions, we discus them here routinely.
Most popular ultras, Western States for US, UTMB for Europe and Comrafes for the world stage.
Best ultra runner of all time, Yannis
Hardest ultra world record, 48 hrs
Most beautiful ultra, anything on an island
And that 48 hr WR is 394 miles.
Walmbombs wrote:
And that 48 hr WR is 394 miles.
294
Walmbombs wrote:
And that 48 hr WR is 394 miles.
7:18 mile pace for 2 days straight is crazy.
Comrades has to be the most competitive ultra. The only really significant american ultra is probably Western States. Hardrock's lottery makes it under competitive. UTMB is probably the most competitive mountain ultra.
I have never done it but I am pretty sure there is something magical about la Diagonale des Fous. It is also not as competitive as some but crossing that island has to be spectacular! And there is some history there too.
For the GOAT ultra runner Ann Trason has to be above the rest (to my limited knowledge).
As far as male are concerned I feel like I have to mention Kilian Jornet because his range is impressive. He has won everything he attempted on very various races. From Sierre-Zinal (where he is on 5 freaking wins!) (But not an ultra) to UTMB and everything in between.
He has never done (and will never do) roads ultras though so.. but still with his range on the trails he can't be far from the top spot.
Another vote for Comrades. Great history, many amazing runners as champions, tough route for a road race (both up and down run), very competitive, amazing vibe and spectators.
Bucket list race - UTMB.
I'll admit as a South African I am biased, but we've had some great ultra runners. Probably the most famous is Bruce Fordyce
9 times Comrades winner, of which 8 was consecutive
former 100 km world record holder (set in the year he skipped Comrades)
still (AFAIK) 50 mile world record holder
3 times London to Brighton marathon winner
And lots of other accolades.
Hi guys,
As far as the GOAT, you either have to decide if you consider road ultras, mountain ultras, or both.
If road, no debate, Yannis Kouros is your guy.
If mountain ultras, it's a bit more of a debate, but I think Kilian Jornet is a good candidate now, even if he does have competition right now, he has been dominant for what? 10 years?
If you require significant results in both, then Jornet is out of contention and Kouros didn't have major results in mountaineous terrain appart maybe Spartathlon I think. Maybe Scott Jurek? By the way, you should read "eat and run", that's a pretty nice introduction to the ultra scene.
As far as races, you named a few. I think they are a good start. I would have added the Spartathlon for its historical significance:
Without a doubt, biggest and best ultra in the World is the Comrades Marathon, and no bias that I am South African or have involvement in the race!
Over 25 000 entries (It could be even more but the organizers put a cap of 25 000), alternates in direction each year, steep tradition and history, great prize money, and very strong competition both locally and internationally. This year will be the 95th running of the race. Multiple World 100km champions have taken on Comrades and come short, some failing to even finish in the top 10.
There are also some crazy times run on the course. The down record is 5:18:19 belonging to David Gatebe who SMASHED Russians Leonid Shvetsov's previous record of 5:20:48 which was seen as untouchable. Gatebe is a 2:13 marathon runner, won the Two Oceans 56km in 2013 and the past two years now at Oceans finished 3rd last year and last week was 2nd with a very strong finish, prepping him well for this years Comrades Marathon. The down run distance is now 90.2km and the uprun distance is 86.7km. From 2:06 men marathon runners to 2:27 females, many have tried their best at Comrades.
When you talk of ultras it's such a wide diversity. From Comrades, Western States 100 miler, 6 day events, 24 hour races, even the Two Oceans 56km which is another very big and fast ultra, its kinda like comparing a marathon to a 10km event in some instances so I feel like there should be different categories, like road ultra, trail ultra, multi day events, etc
Even when it comes to the GOAT, it's impossible to pick one as the events are so wide apart that again, you would have to have a few GOATS
dont know much about ultras wrote:
Legit ultra fans, I'd love to hear opinions on this: is Yiannis Kouros by far the GOAT ultrarunner? Or is he not even #1?
He has all the records, and by large margins, but he didn't tend to do the type of races that the top guys do nowadays.
For the distances he's raced, he's absolutely in a league of his own.
His Spartathlon times and his 24 hour records are utterly mind blowing.
reed wrote:
S. Canaday wrote:
Yes, it was a great chat! Glad Wejo and Rojo are open to discuss (discus? ) this kind of "distance running"
One thing that we didn't have time for was to talk about the whole "most beautiful ultras/courses"...
They say "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", and I realize some people like the oceans/forest better than the high alpine mountains....some people like the deserts...some people even might like road/track surface ultras... there are ultras all over the world in all these kinds of places!
The other big thing with ultras is why races become "bucket list"....does the scarcity of gaining a lottery entry create value? Does the history of a race create value? What about relative competition, prize money, and finisher density (i.e of the top 10 etc)?
I agree with Sage regarding "bucket list" races or "most beautiful" courses. Some people like huge mountains, some people like rainforests, some people like deserts. The most beautiful courses probably aren't well-known at all, and the locals probably want to keep it that way.
Another question we should answer - Who is the best "any surface any distance" runner in the MUT world? Sage and others try hard to be versatile but it's not easy. Who does it best?
On the women's side, the answer would be Courtney Dauwalter. She can crush anything from mountainous to track ultras, anywhere from 50-200+ miles.
dont know much about ultras wrote:
Legit ultra fans, I'd love to hear opinions on this: is Yiannis Kouros by far the GOAT ultrarunner? Or is he not even #1?
He has all the records, and by large margins, but he didn't tend to do the type of races that the top guys do nowadays.
He is the GOAT, but a lot of people who started following ultrarunning more recently haven't heard of him. I would say the GOAT woman is Ann Trason who was also incredibly versatile in terms of surface and distances (as long as it was long!).
Spartathlon is underrated & I’m glad to see it mentioned, other races are getting their due here. Spartathlon includes a difficult trail section late in the race which Kouros did at an unmatched pace when it was little known (in the first edition especially), and little cleared. Spartathlon is also hybridized by being difficult to finish but easy to enter & get in a lot of miles before the cutoffs eliminate many.
The 3100 is the longest & relatively accessible, doomed to be forever underrated.
HobbyTrailJogger wrote:
Hi guys,
As far as the GOAT, you either have to decide if you consider road ultras, mountain ultras, or both.
If road, no debate, Yannis Kouros is your guy.
If mountain ultras, it's a bit more of a debate, but I think Kilian Jornet is a good candidate now, even if he does have competition right now, he has been dominant for what? 10 years?
...
This. Are the Brojos wanting to talk about Ultras or MUT?
Massive variety of races, terrains, and distances available (kinda like all the different disciplines in Track and Field). Personally I love VKs and classic uphill races, not an ultra person at all.
In general in MUT, it's difficult to get all the studs together on one start line, the races are smaller. Also keep in mind there is a pretty huge difference in athlete assistance depending on the race budget.
reed wrote:
another good question would be:
What can we do to encourage elite road/track athletes to train seriously for MUT events?
Is it just about the money? I think that if Letsrun gave more attention to trailrunning/ultrarunning, then more competitive athletes would gain an interest in it.
another good question would be:
What can we do to encourage elite MUT athletes to train seriously for road/track events?
