BYU -- CHOKE CITY

So if Portland ran their entire team at the conference meet and won, but then ran like crap at Regionals and/or NCAA's that is a benefit to the sport? It seems the issue is not that Portland or any team rests runners at conferences; it is that the sport is currently set-up such that conferences are purely an exhibition with ZERO impact on what really matters in the postseason. Kudos to the Portland coach for managing his team well.

rojo wrote:

doo doo wrote:

It matters, if only because of your commentary on the conference thread.

Jonathan Gault wrote the article but I also believe what he wrote was correct - it isn't good for the sport for teams to blow off conference meets.

To have one meet that matters isn't good for fans. We never said it wouldn't help them at NCAAs. We just said "What about the sport?"

So, if Portland ran their entire team at the conference meet

Its simple. They raced/trained too hard to early. They probably peaked during their conference meet. Bad coaching, bad timing.

ItsNotMeItsYou wrote:

My question is this: How can you watch what has happened the past two seasons and doubt what NAU is going to do in a race?

BYU had a great season, but I was shocked at how little respect was paid to NAU in the buildup to this meet. That team has shown no indication that it was going to slip up. NAU should also be the favorite going into next season as well, but the doubters will forget what Day and Baxter did to that field today. And make no mistake, those two decimated that field in the last 4k, save for Justyn Knight. BYU showed great pack running through 8K in races where they set the pace. Running 10K while trying to stay within sight of the guys up front is a different ballgame.

THIS. We had to listen to Isaac Wood drone on and on about his unbeatable BYU squad and how their pack was unshakable and how he believed Rory Linkletter could win indvididually. Meanwhile NAU is just licking their chops...defending champs and as hungry as anyone in that field. They went out and ran an agressive, smashmouth race and put pressure on the BYU pack right from the gun. BYU didn't know what hit them.

heaven wrote:

Its simple. They raced/trained too hard to early. They probably peaked during their conference meet. Bad coaching, bad timing.

The crazy thing is they have done this again and again, and even said "THIS YEAR IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT". Same program, same result.

They are like the Jim Walmsley of the NCAA. They just can't rein themselves in when it counts.

Meanwhile, back in tinytown:

rojo wrote:

doo doo wrote:

It matters, if only because of your commentary on the conference thread.

Jonathan Gault wrote the article but I also believe what he wrote was correct - it isn't good for the sport for teams to blow off conference meets.

To have one meet that matters isn't good for fans. We never said it wouldn't help them at NCAAs. We just said "What about the sport?"

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2017/10/sport-portland-shouldnt-tanking-conference-meet/

winning conference has nothing to do with the ncaa football playoffs or march madness why should we care if it has anything to do with XC? I think the real reason this is an issue with running is because AD's see the only value of non revenue sports is winning conference for the school. going to ncaa is just another expense that they would rather use towards padded seats in the football stadium.

What is more important to Ohio State? Conference title or national title?

I'm guessing many will disagree with me, but I would guess that most athletic director's would choose BYU's cross country season over Portland's. I'm not saying I'd rather take 3rd than 2nd or that BYU's not pissed they lost to Portland today.

But ADs care about championship results and every coach reports to their AD. In almost every NCAA sport there are two championships: conference and national. ADs care about the stats from these two championships: conference team and individual championships, all-conference performers, national team and individual champions, national podium performance, NCAA All-American performers. These are the stats they care about and the stats they use to judge their coaches and their teams.

Everyone keeps saying that conference doesn't matter. Of course it matters. It's a championship meet. It's not nationals but you are there to crown the best team in the conference. It's like saying in HS the state championship doesn't matter at all because only nationals matters.

Anytime I ran at conference, I ran to win and I wouldn't be caught dead losing on purpose.

Its the curse of hype. Letsrun and Flotrack have talked them for the last 3 months as invincible. Even in the Flotrack pregame show, Jared Ward predicted them to win everything in sight. Then the race starts ,NAU takes it out and BYU basically concedes it to them in the first mile, Third is great but they were played up too much.

BYU had a great season! They were not going to beat NAU the way NAU ran but could possibly have beaten Portland if Linkletter and Young would have been on par. 3 All-Americans I believe. Might of had 5 if those two just mentioned ran like they have been running. Only disappointment is not beating Portland and not getting more All-Americans. There should be no disappointment for not beating NAU the way NAU ran. BYU also had the fastest freshman which was great! 3rd in the Nation is a great accomplishment and even more remarkable when a significant portion of their team were local kids.

Conference championships don’t matter in March Madness??? I really hope you were joking when making that claim, considering teams who win their conference meets get an automatic bid to the tournament, which is one of the reasons why upsets occur because you have these smaller schools who surprise these bigger schools during the tournament.

Who is Isaac wood?

blamb61 wrote:

They were not going to beat NAU the way NAU ran.

Eyestone described NAU as a "buzzsaw"... great descriptor in light of their mascot.

Truth! At the end-of-the-day .... Portland is simply "runner-up" and not a champion.

Uhm....Yeah

Like Ricky Bobby's daddy says, "If you're not first, your last!"

Well, BYU was lastlier than Portland!

TRUTH!! Overhyped to say the least.

Meanwhile, Portland is beaming and celebrating still, getting even more motivated for next year.

On the other hand, BYU choked big time and is still clearing their throats, and getting more depressed about next year.

Anything other than first is a participation medal and is worthless unless you are a snowflake.

MUGA

Classic Rojo “it’s not good for the sport” comment.

I’m sure all those WCC XC fans were devastated at the conference meet.

Hounddogharrier wrote:

Its the curse of hype. Letsrun and Flotrack have talked them for the last 3 months as invincible. Even in the Flotrack pregame show, Jared Ward predicted them to win everything in sight. Then the race starts ,NAU takes it out and BYU basically concedes it to them in the first mile, Third is great but they were played up too much.

Dude, do you even read LetsRun? When did we EVER call BYU invincible? We had NAU as our #1 team way back in September and picked NAU again in our pre-race preview. Yeah, I expected BYU to be closer at NCAAs, but we never forgot about NAU.

I love how there is no mention at all of BYU's choke at nats in the most recent 10 Final Observations article on the homepage. It is more than fair to call BYU's performance "choking" when you have their coaches publicly saying they're going to walk away with the title. They were not even close.

NAU took control of the race from the gun and made it hard for those who tried to sit back and ease their way into it (BYU, Grant Fisher, etc.).

With the wind and the narrowing of the course, a hot pace up front was the cryptonite for those guys. It’s crazy to think that Day was leading as late as 9K and basically dominated the race (along with his teammate) and ran Fisher- same HS class as him- out of contention.

Would like to hear from Grant now. He’s got to realize that his first 800m basically cost him a shot at a national title.

biasedforsure wrote:

I love how there is no mention at all of BYU's choke at nats in the most recent 10 Final Observations article on the homepage. It is more than fair to call BYU's performance "choking" when you have their coaches publicly saying they're going to walk away with the title. They were not even close.

When did their coaches publicly say they were going to "walk away with the title?" They had a goal to win. They did not. Never claimed they would easily win.

Not everyone who makes it their goal to win will win, but everyone who has ever won anything, at some point made it their goal to win. How can you rag on the 3rd place team for making it their goal to win?

You're all complaining about the BYU hype and how they choked- well even NAU said in their post-win interview that the BYU hype pushed them. Think about how these sort of hypes help the sport. It wasn't without reason either. BYU deserved the hype. This year we saw great things from great teams. I hope these things continue to happen, and I hope the sport gains popularity as a result.

Congrats to NAU for a well-deserved win! And congrats to BYU for a fantastic season, for setting high goals, and for accomplishing greater things than 99% of haters on this message board have. I'm looking forward to both of these teams next year as each is returning a stellar team!