Holy Sh**: Obiri 8:20

you're overlooking some physiological realities but also some practical ones.

Yes , great result , best 3k ever for women.

How did the americans do , oh wait , no one ran ?

how likely do you think it is that the 800m and 1500m WRs

were drug aided? Personally, I think it very likely.

MarathonMind wrote:

Paula ran 30:01, but yeah, the point is after training for the marathon she was aerobically at her potential at all distances. Lesson is, run huge mileage, as much as you can handle whenever you are in base training.

Not, that staightforward you are forgetting the 10 years prior to that where she concentrated on shorter distances. Of course you need to add some miles on top of that.

Like most runners after a few years high mileage and not doing shorter distance races her performance deteriorated, although of course she was getting older as well

Charlie Speeding always reckoned Salazar ran his marathon world best largely off the back of 10km training. Once he concentracted on the marathon type training you advocate his performances went downhill

if that race doesnt wake you up

to what really happening in track ,

then nothing will .

continue to delude oneself .

yyy wrote:

how likely do you think it is that the 800m and 1500m WRs

were drug aided? Personally, I think it very likely.

women's 800 record is one of the biggest jokes out there

Have you ever seen a picture of Kratochvilova?

she was doped to the point where she basically became a man

El Keniano wrote:

Hellen Obiri always a fighter even in races she doesn't win. And yes, I too see this as the world record. Also show some love for that lovely cop Mercy Cherono who attacked first and flew past Dibaba taking Obiri with her.

Hear, hear.

I will not add anything to this except to say that those Kenyan fans were a little idiotic according to me. How dare they?

we should throw out all records not held by Aficans or white English speakers.

aint ya wrote:

I was thinking the same thing. This run is likely the world record if we exclude obvious drug cheats. I don't view all Chinese times as doped, but I do view all 1993 Chinese times as doped.

And all Africans and "African times" as clean?

PC white people are hilarious.

DaveyGuy wrote:

If all the Chinese times from 1993 are removed, up intill today the 2 fastes times where run in the same race in 2002

Szabo 8:21.64

Radcliffe 8:22.20

The fastest Chinese time not in 1993 is 8:36.25 in 20000

http://www.alltime-athletics.com/w_3000ok.htm

There is that 8:16.60 that was run indoors this year

The times all stand , so need to talk about what if's.

Biggest point is that we don't have an american woman within 15 seconds of these athletes and I think we will see a sub 8:15 before the summer is out this year.

Moon run wrote:

DaveyGuy wrote:

If all the Chinese times from 1993 are removed, up intill today the 2 fastes times where run in the same race in 2002

Szabo 8:21.64

Radcliffe 8:22.20

The fastest Chinese time not in 1993 is 8:36.25 in 20000

http://www.alltime-athletics.com/w_3000ok.htm

There is that 8:16.60 that was run indoors this year

The times all stand , so need to talk about what if's.

Biggest point is that we don't have an american woman within 15 seconds of these athletes and I think we will see a sub 8:15 before the summer is out this year.

Never mind the Chinese. Before Doha, there were 20 non-Chinese sub-8:26 performances. 6 of them were by athletes later banned for doping offenses: Kazankina, Yegorova, Tomashova and our very own Slaney, still the only American ever under 8:30.

Because of this, any sub 8:25 - by any athlete, from anywhere - has to be taken with a grain of salt. Five sub-8:25's in the same race, every one of them a 9+ second PR? That is just too miraculous to believe it was natural.

An 8:25 3k is relatively slow for women compared to top standards in other events.

There should be a number of women under 8:10 by this point in time.

8:25 is not a special barrier. Plenty of women have been able to. They just didn't because of bad pacing or didn't try. It was the same thing with breaking 12:50 in the 5k for men. It was always seen as a magical performance that only greats could achieve. Then when the pace is actually pushed and the rabbits did a good job, 6 people did in one race. Twice as many as the previous record. Doha is an example of what happens with good pacing and athletes going for fast times as opposed to just winning or sit and kicking.

How does 3.55 in the 1500m compare to 8:20 in the 3000m?

great post

from some tables for mathematical equivalencies for just the numbers at various distances :

https://2008olympictrialsakatommyleonard.shutterfly.com/filecabinet

go to "Ventolin worksheet"

12'50.00 = 44.66 = 1'43.32 = 3'30.73 = 7'27.06 = 26'36.57

leaving aside the 10k which is extinct nowdays on circuit, the 400 - 3ks woud expected to be beaten by a few guys every year ( albeit 3k also now pretty much extinct ), so you shoud expect a few guys under 12'50 every year

as for the women's 3k, nearest lines :

8'25.26 = 3'59.83 = 14'27.00 = 29'50.57

8'20.16 = 3'57.28 = 14'18.50 = 29'33.57

8'15.06 = 3'54.73 = 14'10.00 = 29'16.57

leaving aside the 10k which for women is appalling, an 8'20 is worth no better than a 3'57 but a pretty good 14'18+

an 8'15 woud be getting into 5k wr equivalency territory

Right and wrong: I somewhat agree with you .. but … 12:50 is STILL a "magical performance that only greats could achieve". Name someone who's NOT great that ran under 12:50?More importantly though, the pace has been pushed in plenty of races, and very very few went under 12:50. Paul Tergat broke it, barely, and he had Komen and Geb to pace him. So be careful in making your point that you don't go the other way and make it out to be a hobby jogger time, either. 12:50 is still totally badass. The 6 who broke it in 2012 are badass. And lots of badass athletes had a great careers with countless opportunities to run that fast and never did/have.

TAA wrote:

8:25 is not a special barrier. Plenty of women have been able to. They just didn't because of bad pacing or didn't try. It was the same thing with breaking 12:50 in the 5k for men. It was always seen as a magical performance that only greats could achieve. Then when the pace is actually pushed and the rabbits did a good job, 6 people did in one race. Twice as many as the previous record. Doha is an example of what happens with good pacing and athletes going for fast times as opposed to just winning or sit and kicking.

tergat was peaking for his 10k wr attempt the following week

that 5k was still in training for that 10k

& also, if you'd seen the race, he made a stoopid move following komen/geb who were operating at not far off 12'40 pace - too quick for tergat & he faded after 4th km

if he'd dropped back from start & run his own race, he wouda been looking at nearer 12'45 rather than actual 12'49

as for the guys who broke 12'50, no one in their right mind wouda called almirew, longosiwa or kipkoech "greats" before they broke it & these guys couda expected coupla secs off their final clockings if pace hadn't dropped from 4k - 4600 as isiah got sick of doing the donkey work

a "proper" barrier is 12'45 for current elite guys :

12'45.00 = 44.26 = 1'42.52 = 3'29.23 = 7'24.06 = 26'26.57

looking at 800 & 1500, you shoud expect 2 - 3 guys/y going 12'45 if they got the ideal pace

So, if Tergat had dropped back, he'd have beaten Komen, and been soundly beating Geb until the las 30 yards? I see.

Nobody woulda called Komen "great" til he dropped a 12"45 either. (Most) people call athletes "great" when they run a "great" time .. not when someone on the internet says their Calculator assigned greatness.

FWIW .. I'd call any elite athlete "great". those guys and gals are simply incredible.

fool

tergat dropping back early on wouda mean he wouda had some sprint left at the end, maybe for a last lap 57 or 58 for close to 12'45, which mighta come close to catching a fading komen but nowhere close to geb

as for komen, the guy had run 7'20/12'45 the year before

idiot

he was a "great" by any definition going into '97