That is an early season race after a hard block of training. You should probably look at their whole season before you make assumptions about their running ability. At Paul short most of those kids break 26 and are usually closer to 25:30.
That is an early season race after a hard block of training. You should probably look at their whole season before you make assumptions about their running ability. At Paul short most of those kids break 26 and are usually closer to 25:30.
go green wrote:
You can't compare Princeton - they are a national program and the standards could be much higher.
Observerer wrote:
Yes, they are much higher than a school like Dartmouth that can only produce an athlete of the caliber of Abby D.
+1
Most schools generally don't have walk-on "standards". They generally have the coach's discretion, which may vary from year to year, with the average speeds of the other walkons, or with how the coach just feels about you as an individual.
Good luck.
asfdwegfds wrote:
Most schools generally don't have walk-on "standards". They generally have the coach's discretion, which may vary from year to year, with the average speeds of the other walkons, or with how the coach just feels about you as an individual.
Good luck.
and there are travel teams to make - sometimes you can train with the team but not get to race until you hit a standard or are top 21 or something like that
I reached out to the mens' coach, Barry Harwick, during both my junior and senior years of high school. He politely provided me with a prompt response, but made it very clear that he had little interest in anyone outside of his group of recruited runners. He would only consider accepting a walk on if the athlete had recorded times better than his prime recruits - in the neighborhood of 4:10 - 4:15 for 1600m.
This policy stems from university-imposed roster caps. I gather that Vin Lananna was a bit more receptive to walk-ons back in the day.
ok, this guy would barely make many hs varsity teams, but he is on the dartmouth website. 4:37 mile, 17:11 5000. And that is bloody track, not xc. I think you guys are full of &^%*.
4:15 mile baseline, my foot:
http://www.dartmouthsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=11600&ATCLID=205271689
2011-2012 (Freshman): Russell finished 50th at the New England Championships, helping the sub-varsity squad defend its team title. In indoor, Russell ran a season best of 4:37.86 for the mile at the Maine/Vermont/RPI meet. Ran 17:11.86 for 5000m at the New Balance Twilight meet.
2011-12 Top Performances
Mile 4:37.86 Quad Meet 1/14/12
3000m
9:24.22 Dart Relays 1/8/12
5000m
17:11.86 NBB Twilight I 5/12/12
that guy also ran 16:40 and the equivalent of 9:40 3200 in hs. those aren't great times but shows how he could have walked on the team.
http://ma.milesplit.com/athletes/1698665-henry-russell#.Uht3nyqF-j8
http://ma.milesplit.com/athletes/2122279-henry-russell#.Uht3nSqF-j8
call it in the air wrote:
that guy also ran 16:40 and the equivalent of 9:40 3200 in hs. those aren't great times but shows how he could have walked on the team.
http://ma.milesplit.com/athletes/1698665-henry-russell#.Uht3nyqF-j8http://ma.milesplit.com/athletes/2122279-henry-russell#.Uht3nSqF-j8
well that doesn't change anything- a 9:40 2 mile is equivalent to a 4:36 mile per mcmillan.
As others have pointed out, clearly coaches have leeway, depending on how many people they have on roster, how appealing the student is as a person, and other factors. Including g'dam title 9 enforcement.
You have to remember that Dartmouth is a small school - the smallest in the Ivies - just 4100 undergrads or so. Yet they want to compete in every sport against massive UPenn (10,000 undergrads) and Cornell (14,000 undergrads) and Harvard (7,000 undergrads). Dartmouth is really a d3 school that tries (unsuccessfully, usually) to hit above its weight in all sports. So the coaches don't have huge #s of kids to tell no to. it may be easier to make a team at Dartmouth than its peer schools.
Invisible Walrus wrote:
I reached out to the mens' coach, Barry Harwick, during both my junior and senior years of high school. He politely provided me with a prompt response, but made it very clear that he had little interest in anyone outside of his group of recruited runners. He would only consider accepting a walk on if the athlete had recorded times better than his prime recruits - in the neighborhood of 4:10 - 4:15 for 1600m.
This policy stems from university-imposed roster caps. I gather that Vin Lananna was a bit more receptive to walk-ons back in the day.
I had the same experience trying to walk-on to BC in the 2000s. Just being faster than the slowest guys on the roster was not fast enough to be a walk-on. This makes sense as well. Those slow guys running 5:30 pace in an XC race are
A) having a bad race as someone pointed out
B) a huge disappointment and were expected to be better.
Bare minimum you probably need to be running average times for the program in order for the coach to justify expanding the roster. By the way, expanding the roster is not a trivial tasks for these teams. This is XC and Track. The coaches and programs have low budgets and supposed head count caps mandated by the insurance. In order for the coach to go through the work to add you to the team, you need to show actual upside (scoring in conference meets) and have a real benefit for the team, not just being a workout partner with the kids coming off injuries.
Another good place to look for walk-on standards are the times at conference meets. How fast would you need to run to actually score and help improve the team?
Basically, it seems that in low caliber/low budget D1 running programs, you actually need faster times to walk-on than you would need to be recruited.
bump
this freshman ran 4:26 for 1600 and around 9:40 for 3200. On Dartmouth roster.
This talk of 4:15 and 9:15 can't be right at Dartmouth - it's just too small a school.
that said, if you want on the team with a 9:40 3200 you better be mr clean and mr motivated.
um, never mind. That guy ran a 5k in 15:30 in his jr yr of hs.
He also ran 9:25 in the 3200, not 9:40--the facts are right there in your source!
Look out for Matt Herzig 9:27, 4:34 in high school now a freshman finished 8th for Dartmouth last weekend.
http://ma.milesplit.com/athletes/971834-matt-herzig/stats#.UjdG1D_9WTM
[quote]go green wrote:
ok, this guy would barely make many hs varsity teams, but he is on the dartmouth website. 4:37 mile, 17:11 5000. And that is bloody track, not xc. I think you guys are full of &^%*.
Dude, a 4:37 miler would be the fastest miler in the school for at least 90% of the high schools in this country. He'd be the school record holder for more than half of them.