"There are two phases to competitive distance running: preparation and execution. Both are equally important. Regardless of how much you have trained, if you do not “do it” on race day, no body cares how well you trained. Regardless of how well you can execute on race day, it is a function of how well you have prepared"
Ritz wasn't prepared, end of story.
R.L. Scribner wrote:
I don't understand why you are arguing here. Yes, you and everyone else knows that optimal conditions are the rarity. But it doesn't hurt to note that the conditions were sub-optimal when people start wondering about the times. There's no handicap, just an acknowledgement. In response to the question, "Why did everyone run so slow?", one of the first reasons here is the weather, typical or not.
(Responding to bold) Because optimal conditions in June, July and August rarely happen. If optimal conditions were the norm, then fine. But 60F for a summer race is rare and to compare every summer race to that, means you're comparing it to an "outlier". The "outlier" was a gift of conditions, that most non-pros have never even experienced. I've never had Stanford "begging" me to run fast with 5 rabbits and cooperative "competitors" also urging me on a perfect, clear evening. Most of us haven't, and to compare a normal summer day @ USATF's and state "well he didn't run fast, because Stanford organizers didn't set up optimal conditions" is just spoiled..... IMO.
Make no mistake though... I appreciate your reply, as you make a good point, and maybe you're right. But I just have my opinion.
From the Desk of Wetmore wrote:
Ritz wasn't prepared, end of story.
Then what do you call all of the 27:40 runners who finished way behind Ritz?
Ask Suzy Favor Hamilton, It happen to her in the Olympics....possiblty a "Panic Attack"!
Remember what that 10K did to the rest of Webb's season?
I think the same may have happened to Ritz. He really used up
alot of energy in that 2mile a couple of weeks ago. Perhaps
that and the heat caused this result. Hey nothing wrong with a 3rd place now and then.
Last year in the 5,000 at the Nationals, Ritz closed the last 1000 in 2:28 to run 13:16. Last night in the 10,000, Ritz closed in 2:31 . . . for the last 800. Maybe it was the heat (although if it were, it seems Ritz would have been well aware of that after the race), but, to reiterate the place from which I started, he said he shut down in the span of 50 yards. That happened to me in my first marathon. I've seen that happen to world class guys in the 800 and 1500, but in a 10,000 . . . . So that's why I was wondering if there might not be some physiological mechanism unrelated or only tangentially related to the heat/humidity which might have been at play, something that might show up in a blood test--some electrolyte imbalance, etc.
ttc wrote:
(Responding to bold) Because optimal conditions in June, July and August rarely happen. If optimal conditions were the norm, then fine. But 60F for a summer race is rare and to compare every summer race to that, means you're comparing it to an "outlier". The "outlier" was a gift of conditions, that most non-pros have never even experienced. I've never had Stanford "begging" me to run fast with 5 rabbits and cooperative "competitors" also urging me on a perfect, clear evening. Most of us haven't, and to compare a normal summer day @ USATF's and state "well he didn't run fast, because Stanford organizers didn't set up optimal conditions" is just spoiled..... IMO.
Make no mistake though... I appreciate your reply, as you make a good point, and maybe you're right. But I just have my opinion.
Fair enough. I think that we don't really disagree here. It's just semantics, really.
wejo: with all due respect, Hudson is an authority on nothing.
authority on nothing huh? im thinking he's much more accomplished in running than you'll ever be. get a life.
Was the weather any better today? Lagat, Teg, Goucher and Shalane, Sykes, and jen rhines seem to have run some decent times in spite of the weather.
have you ever spoken to Brad?
tridentsaresweet wrote:
authority on nothing huh? im thinking he's much more accomplished in running than you'll ever be. get a life.
Ritz is notorious for pushing himself over the max. I'd probably guess he is the same way in practice. The A+ personality and always putting in 120% may work in High School, but it doesn't work as a Pro. Maybe he needs to do Yoga or smoke some pot to calm down.
My guess is that he had a minor heat stroke. This has happened to me a couple of times. I have fallen to the ground like he did because gradually my vision kept getting dimmer and dimmer until I couldn't see anymore. although I was still standing up and I thought my eyes were open, but I couldn't see. This has happened to me three times. Anyway I imagine the same thing happened to him as the pictures show his eyes going in the back of his head, and he fell to the ground because I bet the last 100 meters was like that for him... Ritz = tough as nails..
p.s. I was wondering if this is normal when you can't see anything but are still capable of moving around but just scared sh**less because I'm basically blind??
What is the weather in Osaka going to be?? Me thinks it will be pretty damn warm and humid as well. You have to traing to where you are going to race, just like in Athens.
Ritz was not well prepared, he may be in pretty good shape, but look where he has lived, Rockford, Boulder and now Eugene, not the hot beds of the US temp. wise.
tridentsaresweet wrote:
authority on nothing huh? im thinking he's much more accomplished in running than you'll ever be. get a life.
No. I don't have to if I don't want to. And you can't make me.
And why does my running have anything to do with Brad Hudson being an authority on anything?
Idiot.
It seems like half of letsrun ran to their computers to be the first to come up with the best excuse as soon as Ritz began to lose it. Was this a letsrun contest with prize money?
You've got to be kidding right?!!!!! He won Ncaa's in XC over Hall--and he prett much passed out after, and had pneumonia last year-and still finished 3rd or 4th. He's been a pro two years-The dude can push, and he did go for the win-not the whine-of sitting back and getting lucky that the guy will die. He has (balls) as MoTT would say. He just needs to attack at the right time, not like he did, and wear himself out. No mention of how Hall did-right! and dont give me this crap about him not being in shape/ did he race before his half? so quit crucifying Ritz or Webb or Fam, people have sub par races-they'll learn.
trident wrote:
and I'd also like to point out there are different ways of "going for the win". Culpepper went for the win in XC: he sat back, knew what he was capable of, trusted his fitness and in the end blew by the younger Ritz and Goucher.
I admire Ritz for pushing so hard, certainly. But until he learns HOW to race, and until he learns his body better - he will always struggle to win these types of races. Abdi yesterday and Alan this past winter are veterns of the sport. they know their bodies, they are VERY WELL prepared (mentally and physically) and when it comes down to winning a big race, they simply KNOW how to win.
with all due respect, Dathan just doesn't know how to win big championship races. (not yet anyway)
some type of heat injury, as others are intimating, i doubt it, would not present in such a rapid onset (as noted, within 50 meters). so was it some blood or electolyte imbalance, i don't believe so, not necessarily as a chronic issue, but more than likely a training related effect. in my opinion, it is the lack of anaerobic glycolytic system and/or lactate tolerance type training that may have hurt him. could it have been a lack of tempo runs in heat conditions at anaerobic threshold or faster? maybe intervals or repetition runs somehow went astray? coaches?
I think this is good wrote:
Ritz said in his post-race interview that in a span of fifty yards he went from feeling "like a million bucks" to having nothing left. He was perplexed and so am I. This does not sound like a heat related problem, which, at least if my own experience is a guide, comes on more gradually. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what the physiological basis for such a dramatic change might be?
I live in Florida and have too often felt the "felt great and then two strides later felt awful" effect of the heat.
Wouldn't it be ironic if Ritz is actually more suited for the 2-mile to 5K, than the 10K and marathon... while Hall (who used to be a 1500 guy) is the better marathoner?