Please provide your proof of this claim. It's easy to surmise and make assumptions. But do you truly "Know" this to be true? If so, please provide your proof. Thanks.
There's no way something covered up to this extent is going to have any shareable hard evidence present. But you knew that in making a disingenuous, impossible challenge.
g) Shelby had her own doping program and so does Grant. Shelby got caught and refuses own up to it. Lesson is: don't get caught or be high profile enough that your lawyers can bury it.
Grant Fisher Is universally beloved on these boards while Shelby Houlihan might be the most intensely despised person on Letsrun.
So LRC faithful answer me this, do you believe:
a) Houlihan acted independently to knowingly take drugs while BTC coaches/athletes were completely out of the dark. b) Nandrolone accidently got into Houlihan’s system and no one on the team was doping. c) The coaches were involved but only gave drugs to Houlihan and no other athletes on the team d) Everyone on the team was in on it, took drugs but only Houlihan tested positive. e) Some other scenario (please explain)
If you don’t believe option a or b, how do you reconcile that with your opinion of Fisher?
And yet no one points the finger at the dirty Doc who had been previously caught manipulating samples.
I think it's definitely possible that athletes test positive due to contaminated meat.
This paper from the 80's tested random untrained people and found a decent percentage with detectable anabolics in their urine. Also had them eat contaminated meat and detected the anabolics in their urine. Compared it to small injections of anabolics.
I also think it's very possible/likely that these coaches/programs know exactly which restaurants in their city serve meat contaminated with anabolics, and tell their athletes to go and buy a burrito every 30 days or so, and then are minor-dosing anabolics. If they come to test you within 24 hours of your minor dose, just dodge the test and go buy a burrito.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
These athletes are supplied custom prepared vitamin stacks (whether by Nike or an associated lab) that also unbeknownst to the athletes contain custom prepared microdoses of PEDs (including deca) lined up with their biological profiles.
The fateful batch with Shelby's dose got mixed up with a male athlete's dose (possibly Centro's since at the time they lived at the same address, which would mean Centro's dose at that time was too weak lol), and unfortunately the coats came calling while she was on that batch. That she readily agreed to the test that day indicates she wasn't knowingly glowing.
If the lid came off of what happened with Shelby and with this whole operation, Nike to put it lightly would be in serious legal hot water, and could bring down not just them but the entire sport. So Nike and their 3rd party associates had to work with Shelby (again unbeknownst to her) to keep it covered up while making it appear to her and everyone that they were helping with her appeal and investigation. Them "ruling out" her supplements as a trigger was total BS: They told her they had investigated and ruled them out when of course they did not (and for their purposes could not).
Too big and implausible a conspiracy for me.
Coaches amd brands operate a wilful blindness policy on doping. Why would they take the risk?
Just delegate the doping down to the athletes then pick up the ones who do it well and get away with it.
All the upside, none of the downside.
Big entities outsource their dirty work, and knowledge of their dirty work all the time. Politicians, corporations, everyone's at it.
Personally I think the answer is b) - she was doing it in secret from her team (obv centro knew)
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Doping has been outsourced to the athletes in any country with an equitable anti-doping system since the Festina affair in like 1999. As long as it isn't supplied by them, teams and sponsors can hold onto a semblance of plausible deniability while demanding athletes bring home the results necessary to stay on the team/on contract. I'm sure some are doping to varying degrees and that there are some athletes that are completely clean- most likely the ones who get worn out on the training or don't light up the night sky like clockwork every fall. Everything is left unsaid.
As long as it isn't supplied by them, teams and sponsors can hold onto a semblance of plausible deniability while demanding athletes bring home the results necessary to stay on the team/on contract.
I think this is probably most likely, but there still needs to be some coordination between coaches, agents, and "doctors" to know what races they need to be clean for and when they can push it in training.
Grant Fisher Is universally beloved on these boards while Shelby Houlihan might be the most intensely despised person on Letsrun.
So LRC faithful answer me this, do you believe:
a) Houlihan acted independently to knowingly take drugs while BTC coaches/athletes were completely out of the dark. b) Nandrolone accidently got into Houlihan’s system and no one on the team was doping. c) The coaches were involved but only gave drugs to Houlihan and no other athletes on the team d) Everyone on the team was in on it, took drugs but only Houlihan tested positive. e) Some other scenario (please explain)
If you don’t believe option a or b, how do you reconcile that with your opinion of Fisher?
A-1: Likely, potentially with coach awareness but unlikely other athletes.
B: Absurd.
C: Coaches wouldn't be the one "giving the drugs" (though they might be aware, likely with a distance of plausible deniability distance, i.e. 'I know Dr. Brown will make sure you are staying healthy to train.')
smells to high heaven cheating06/23/2021 9:54pm EDT4 years ago
I have personally talked about Baumann’s, who is the fastest non African 5000m runner and Olympic 5000m gold medalist, nandrolone bust and the toothpaste excuse he used with Schumacher. This happened at the peak of Shumacher’...
How are the smart people of letsrun so gullible? Microdosing stuff is literally the most common way for athletes to dope. And they usually take it at night and dose in such a manner that the morning doping control will not show anything. So in this case the dosage must have been a little too high for simple human error and that is why it was positive. Dosing exactly to the level that the substance clears your body overnight is standard microdosing protocol as doping testers rarely show up at 11 at night.
Under Armour's team seems clean to me (as they don't have any earth shattering results, though that could be just a function of the quality of athlete they get) but imagine someone buying an abandoned house in a crappy area just so the tester will never want to show up unannounced at night lol
I just looked on Redfin and this was what I was thinking about (this type):
A-1: Likely, potentially with coach awareness but unlikely other athletes.
Considering how much support from her coaches and teammates she got after getting caught + banned, I find it highly unlikely that no one else was part of it. In that very hypothetical case, Schumacher/Flanagan/Schweizer/... would have been quite upset to find a doper in their midst, and not started lying for her.
These athletes are supplied custom prepared vitamin stacks (whether by Nike or an associated lab) that also unbeknownst to the athletes contain custom prepared microdoses of PEDs (including deca) lined up with their biological profiles.
The fateful batch with Shelby's dose got mixed up with a male athlete's dose (possibly Centro's since at the time they lived at the same address, which would mean Centro's dose at that time was too weak lol), and unfortunately the coats came calling while she was on that batch. That she readily agreed to the test that day indicates she wasn't knowingly glowing.
If the lid came off of what happened with Shelby and with this whole operation, Nike to put it lightly would be in serious legal hot water, and could bring down not just them but the entire sport. So Nike and their 3rd party associates had to work with Shelby (again unbeknownst to her) to keep it covered up while making it appear to her and everyone that they were helping with her appeal and investigation. Them "ruling out" her supplements as a trigger was total BS: They told her they had investigated and ruled them out when of course they did not (and for their purposes could not).
Too big and implausible a conspiracy for me.
Coaches amd brands operate a wilful blindness policy on doping. Why would they take the risk?
Just delegate the doping down to the athletes then pick up the ones who do it well and get away with it.
All the upside, none of the downside.
Big entities outsource their dirty work, and knowledge of their dirty work all the time. Politicians, corporations, everyone's at it.
Personally I think the answer is b) - she was doing it in secret from her team (obv centro knew)
whoops not b) I meant a) - she was doing it intentionally, independently of her team
If I remember right, Shelby was offered a reduced ban if she admitted that she broke the rules. If she would have "come clean" she would have been back in time for the Paris Olympics, presumably in her prime for 1500/5000. However, she chose not to do this which, to me, adds some merit to option B. Not really sure what to believe, but she will be back next year and hopefully ready to compete!
Grant Fisher Is universally beloved on these boards while Shelby Houlihan might be the most intensely despised person on Letsrun.
So LRC faithful answer me this, do you believe:
a) Houlihan acted independently to knowingly take drugs while BTC coaches/athletes were completely out of the dark. b) Nandrolone accidently got into Houlihan’s system and no one on the team was doping. c) The coaches were involved but only gave drugs to Houlihan and no other athletes on the team d) Everyone on the team was in on it, took drugs but only Houlihan tested positive. e) Some other scenario (please explain)
If you don’t believe option a or b, how do you reconcile that with your opinion of Fisher?
I don't think anyone else was taking nandrolone. That is why she got caught. Even on an organized doping team like US Postal not everyone was in on it. Only the top guys got the good stuff and then only some of the secondary guys were let in on lower tier stuff. I think it is a big leap to just think everyone at BTC knew what Houlihan was on or what her program was and that they were also on the same program.
Setting all that aside. Houlihan is pretty unlikable. Transformed during her time as a pro to someone that looked like a body builder. Then came up with some ridiculous lies to cover up. To this day she still won't admit it. There is plenty of reason to not like her and still like Fisher. Especially since he left BTC.
She didn't have some magic Barry Bonds like body transformation. Google image search Shelby Houlihan ASU. She was jacked at ASU too.
There are tons of holes in the story that possibly no one has answers to that is willing to speak up. Is that so hard to understand. If she intentionally doped and was caught, there is limited value admitting guilt as long as you have people who believe you. If she didn't intentionally dope and she truly has no idea how she tested positive, it probably drove her more crazy than this board is. Regardless, I just accept we won't know. She served her time, they should test the crap out of her until she retires and hopefully she finds some peace with herself. My guess is a lot of people who know her in person like her. Most people are likeable once you get to know them.
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