Covid vaccine potentially linked to myocarditis(notice how I said possibly)

Lead Foil Hat XX wrote:

Well, we know with high certainty that the risk of infection for most is almost nothing; so lets start there. It seems a more traditional vaccine would be a good option for those not in dire need of a vaccine that is very effective. This was a huge mistake to not push a simple inactivated whole virus vaccine out; a huge careless mistake. Blame Biden and Trump.

How well are the Chinese and Russian inactivated virus vaccines working out?

Yawn^2 wrote:

Idk, but what I do know is the long term side effects of both are unknown. Because of that, I’ll take my chances. So far I have not gotten Covid so no long term damage. That’s better then getting vaccinated and potentially getting hurt.

If you don't get vaccinated you almost certainly will get COVID at some point, no? 40% of the US got it in ~1 year. Seems like a safe bet.

Long term risks of COVID is obviously higher than the vaccine. Tons of documented COVID injuries.

Less than 25/5 million vaccinations associated with more than "mild" myocarditis. COVID is far more dangerous, even for young people.

Yawn^2 wrote:

But let’s make an assumption here just for arguments sake and say that they discover a link between myocarditis and the vaccine. If this side effect becomes so prevalent they need to slap a warning on it, why would I take it when I can just risk not getting the virus at all?

It’s all hypothetical but it seems to me the odds then favor not getting the vaccine.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that there is a link between Covid and myocarditis. The question is, are you more likely to get myocarditis from Covid, or from the vaccine? And if you get myocarditis, will it be more severe and damaging if you get it from Covid or if you get it from the vaccine?

The CDC has been reporting this since at least a week ago.

As usual, the USA is #1 when it comes to monitoring vaccine safety and efficacy.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html

Yawn^2 wrote:

The Grim Reaper wrote:

How many people have you passed the virus on to, and how many of those people have become significantly ill and/or have died?

That I know of, zero. That is good enough for me. It’s also extremely likely I am not decree so t impossible for me to pass it. By all means, stay away from me though if you want, I actually prefer it that way (unless you are stoppit smith who I still waiting for).

Yes, your "that I know of" qualifier is key. You may have had Covid, it may not have caused any symptoms in your case, and therefore you didn't know you had it. But you still could have passed it on to someone who became sick from it. Maybe severely sick, and maybe you passed it on to someone who died from it.

Your third sentence is unintelligible, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say. But asymptomatic transmission is a thing, so you can pass the virus on to someone else even if you have no symptoms and don't think you are even infected. It's not rare. Your confidence that you've never passed it on to someone else is misplaced.

The baseline assumptions for the model were that peak infectiousness occurred at the median of symptom onset and that 30% of individuals with infection never develop symptoms and are 75% as infectious as those who do develop symptoms. Combined, these baseline assumptions imply that persons with infection who never develop symptoms may account for approximately 24% of all transmission. In this base case, 59% of all transmission came from asymptomatic transmission, comprising 35% from presymptomatic individuals and 24% from individuals who never develop symptoms. Under a broad range of values for each of these assumptions, at least 50% of new SARS-CoV-2 infections was estimated to have originated from exposure to individuals with infection but without symptoms.

Explain this to me wrote:

Good odds wrote:

All you need to know to make an informed decision:

Many more people have gotten the vaccines than have gotten COVID. There have been three confirmed deaths caused by the vaccines. There have been 611,000 confirmed deaths caused by COVID.

While there may only be 3 "confirmed" deaths from the vaccines, there are well over 4,000 deaths reported to VAERS and thousands more adverse reactions. That's more in the last 6 months than in the 20 previous years including all vaccines. Multiple peer-reviewed studies shows that VAERS reports only 1-10% of the actual deaths/adverse reactions, not to mentions VAERS is a passive reporting system that most certainly lags behind. To say the vaccines are safe based off 3 "confirmed" deaths is extremely irresponsible.

The fear mongers claim that COVID deaths are an undercount and VAERS deaths are an overcount. The truth is murky. Excess deaths are likely a closer measure of COVID's toll, but one must account that anywhere from 10-25% of excess deaths can be attributed to other factors like increases in overdoses, delayed medical treatments, etc. and are not fully attributable to COVID. The VAERS reports are likely less than the actual number as not all get reported (healthcare providers are only required to report incidents that occur within the first few days after vaccination). If someone strokes out a week or more after getting vaccinated, it does not get reported. Filing a false report with VAERS is a punishable offense.

Harambe wrote:

COVID is far more dangerous, even for young people.

Please provide evidence of this assertion. Excess deaths among young people are basically non-existent. The number of kids on ventilators and in ICUs is lower than before the pandemic (because of fewer flu cases). Please prove your assertion that COVID is a great danger to young people, as I don't see it in the data.

joed|rt wrote:

Harambe wrote:

COVID is far more dangerous, even for young people.

Please provide evidence of this assertion. Excess deaths among young people are basically non-existent. The number of kids on ventilators and in ICUs is lower than before the pandemic (because of fewer flu cases). Please prove your assertion that COVID is a great danger to young people, as I don't see it in the data.

You could just realize that Harambe is an agenda driven shill. Don't expect him to deviate from his narrative for any reason

Here is an article that reinforces how even the few number of COVID hospitalizations among kids were grossly inflated:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/health/2021/05/19/covid-kids-hospitalizations-lower-than-previously-thought-study-says/5073193001/

Two main takeaways from the article:

1. "About 45% of those hospital admissions were categorized as unlikely to be caused by the virus." Meaning that the count of COVID hospitalizations was likely about half of the claimed number among kids.

2. “Even though the hospitalization patterns and practices were a certain way for the adult hospitals (during the pandemic), they were very different for the pediatric hospitals,” he said. “The census across the board for pediatric hospitals was quite low.” Meaning that overall hospitalization rates for kids during COVID were much less than normal.

I am scheduled to get my 1st shot in a few weeks and am planning to go through with it.

But I am still a little concerned about the long term effects. Full disclosure: I am no scientist and have only done a little digging, so take this with a grain of salt.

The mRNA in the vaccine is delivered using lipid nanoparticles, mainly to shield the mRNA so that it doesn't get immediately attacked by the immune system. In prior trials for other illnesses, leading mRNA companies like Moderna struggled in creating a dose that was potent enough to have material effectiveness, but also not be toxic to the host.

Moderna and BioNTech have been the world leaders in mRNA research and tech so it's very possible they have solved this problem (I honestly probably wouldn't trust any other pharma that claims to have figured this out, these are the ones that were on the cusp prior to covid).

My only concern is with these lipid nanoparticles. Can the body effectively clear them from our systems? Is it possible that with each dose we're adding more into our body that we can't clear, the effects of which would be felt after several doses? This is the only thing that worries me really. It seems that in the short term, tolerance of the vaccine is fine. I'm not worried about 1 or 2 shots right now. What worries me is if there is a possibility of these particles staying in our bodies over time that could cling to internal organs and cause problems.

Would honestly be very happy to hear from someone that could just tell me this is all BS. Would put me more at ease.

My bad about that sentence. I was typing in a hurry and didn’t review it.

I know asymptotic spread is possible, but I also to some extent don’t care. We cannot worry about all the possible ways to spread a virus and lean on an emergency vaccine to try and solve the problem

I’m not dismissing that Covid can have long term physical effects. We have had more time to study these effects then we have had for the vaccine. It’s all about risk and reward. The numbers say I am better off not getting the vaccine. I don’t think I should be asked to risk side effects so that others might not get sick.

I don’t even respond to him anymore. He just makes these outrageous claims. Plus, he discredits himself by citing the cdc, which is an absolute joke at this point.

joed|rt wrote:

Harambe wrote:

COVID is far more dangerous, even for young people.

Please provide evidence of this assertion. Excess deaths among young people are basically non-existent. The number of kids on ventilators and in ICUs is lower than before the pandemic (because of fewer flu cases). Please prove your assertion that COVID is a great danger to young people, as I don't see it in the data.

If you look at cumulative hospitalization rates for the combined 0-17 year old group you get ~1/1000 children have been hospitalized for COVID in the COVID-NET surveillance area.

VAERS reports 102 events requiring hospitalization for people 0-17 after the COVID vaccine.

There have been ~ 6 million people in that age group with at least one shot in the USA.

So that is ~60x less risk which is more than enough buffer for any concerns about data completeness. And this is assuming that ALL VAERS events are caused by the vaccine.

The standard for reporting a COVID hospitalization (at least a + COVID test, if not symptoms) is far, far higher for reporting an event into VAERS (providers are required to do so if it happens after vaccination, regardless of their judgement as to causality).

So this is like an overestimate the risks of the vaccine relative to COVID.

Remember, hospitalization after vaccination MUST be reported to VAERS according to HHS.

P.S. you correctly identify the confounding variables for looking at raw-excess death and hospitalization numbers for COVID cases because flu has been knocked back so much, props.

joed|rt wrote:

Here is an article that reinforces how even the few number of COVID hospitalizations among kids were grossly inflated:

Two main takeaways from the article:

1. "About 45% of those hospital admissions were categorized as unlikely to be caused by the virus." Meaning that the count of COVID hospitalizations was likely about half of the claimed number among kids.

2. “Even though the hospitalization patterns and practices were a certain way for the adult hospitals (during the pandemic), they were very different for the pediatric hospitals,” he said. “The census across the board for pediatric hospitals was quite low.” Meaning that overall hospitalization rates for kids during COVID were much less than normal.

Ok, even assuming this holds everywhere, that adjusts my back of the envelope risk to 30x greater for COVID vs. vaccine.

Yawn^2 wrote:

I don’t even respond to him anymore. He just makes these outrageous claims. Plus, he discredits himself by citing the cdc, which is an absolute joke at this point.

I bring data. You bring rhetoric. I understand why that frustrates you.

Yawn^2 wrote:

My bad about that sentence. I was typing in a hurry and didn’t review it.

I know asymptotic spread is possible, but I also to some extent don’t care. We cannot worry about all the possible ways to spread a virus and lean on an emergency vaccine to try and solve the problem

I’m not dismissing that Covid can have long term physical effects. We have had more time to study these effects then we have had for the vaccine. It’s all about risk and reward. The numbers say I am better off not getting the vaccine. I don’t think I should be asked to risk side effects so that others might not get sick.

The numbers absolutely do not say that the vaccine is less risky for you than COVID. Please provide some evidence. Death rates, hospitalization rates, ANYTHING lol.

Making stuff up is convenient, I get it.

"Covid vaccine potentially linked to myocarditis"--and Covid-19 DISEASE *definitely* linked to myocarditis.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2780548

Once again Harambe does the math, brings the data, and the everyone else will now move the goalposts are present weak theories why these data are wrong!

Yawn^2 wrote:

I don’t even respond to him anymore. He just makes these outrageous claims. Plus, he discredits himself by citing the cdc, which is an absolute joke at this point.

Actually I suspect you don't respond because you are in wildly over your head. But, at least, you are a more fun troll than LFH.... who just rambles on about the same things in every thread with no evidence!