Shalane Flanagan's Role on the BTC Depresses Me

I agree. Also it always seems like women have more hoops to jump through.

I had one female coach and scores of male coaches in my career. Is it any surprise that the female was the most overqualified to coach? Is it any surprise she was also the best coach I had? Thoughtful training plans that led to healthier athletes, an appropriate approach to curb eating issues, and a tough no nonsense attitude. It's not a coincidence.

My female assistant coach had been the top runner and captain when she was a student at our college. Then she was the assistant coach under the head coach for many years before finally getting the title.

I suffered from pretty serious depression as a college freshman. I returned from break and my times in the 3K were a whopping 35 seconds slower than they had been before break. Noticable right? Well no one approached me about it. And back then I didn't have the words to articulate what was going on or even call what I was going through depression. It was that female assistant coach, not the head coach who called me to a meeting to talk things out. The meeting, I remember was late at night because she was working with another athlete on my who had to complete the workout after practice because of internships. She spent all day at her day job, coached regular practice, coached another athlete, and met with me. I just think about this and all the male coaches I had that did not put in the effort. It's not that the male coaches I had were bad or anything, but it will always strike me as weird that they were underqualified, and less passionate about their athletes.

This isn't a meritocracy. Women are looked down upon and seen as weaker, and less capable of jobs that put them in charge through bias.

mama bear wrote:

emr0129 wrote:

Isn't Jerry known for being a bit of a control freak? If that's the case, he would have a hard time letting up on the coaching control. However, almost all of the BTC girls have said that Jerry barely talks to them and certainly isn't a coach that will comfort them when things go poorly. Shalane is probably needed to feel like there's an actual human there that they can talk to.

“Comfort them”???

Does he comfort the men? Hell no.

Do women want to be treated equal or coddled?

Man you couldn’t have said truer words. As a society we are messing our women up completely. Quit trying to coddle them aren’t we all equal human beings. This is going too far we are making everyone so sensitive. Do we not know that life is hard. They’re runners for a living! Like come on, things could be a lot worse. Don’t contradict when you want to be treated equally by also wanting to be coddled. Stop ruining our society with this bs. The past generations would be shaking their heads at what we have become.

i've had the opposite experience with men vs women coaches. So I guess your story is just anecdotal. There's a big world out there.

Precious Roy wrote:

You don't get to walk off the track and start coaching top US talent the next day. Being a great athlete does not mean that you will be a great coach. Coaching is an entirely different discipline. Schumacher spent years working his way up from his first job as an assistant at UNC to Wisconsin then coming to BTC.

Shalane will have her shot at being a top coach, but she will need to work her way up just as everyone else has.

Actually running failures make better coaches = they had to figure it out.

What was Des's temper tantrum? I've heard she's more chill than a lot of runners.

I think that's all LRCers want to see--Shalene will be a kickbutt coach, but she should earn her way to the top like the rest of them.

A lot of solid NFL coaches started off as interns.

I totally get this post with regard to athletics--women may have to work harder to get noticed.

In the business world, it is the opposite (in some, not all fields), especially in healthcare. It is challenging as a male to get promoted in healthcare. A lot of the same issues women face in athletic careers, as well as in engineering (women I know can't advance due to dudes being in there :(, for instance), are reversed in the media and in healthcare.

It really depends on the field. Men have it tougher in media, communications and healthcare.

I don't think its that anecdotal bud. Look up stats on the number of female vs male head coaches int he sport. Do you really think that women are less capable of coaching?

It wasn’t a ‘temper tantrum.’ I assume he’s referring to when Des publicly spoke out against Dathan ritzenhein joining the Hanson team. She felt that his past affiliation with Alberto Salazar tainted the reputation of the Hansons and her in some way, so she left Hanson and now just runs for brooks.

Also with regards to shalane coaching, we obviously can only go by what we see in the media. I have read interviews with her where she has said her job is to look for housing for altitude camp. I get the sense she does a lot of the back end work. There is a video out there from when Shelby & karissa ran in the 14:20s & you see Shalane go over and give some kind of ‘in my day..’ speech about how breaking 15 was the goal to beat. The girls were nice about it but you could tell it was awkward & not very inspiring. Also with Kate & Colleen leaving the team I wonder what if shalane played in driving them out.

oianveioion wrote:

high school xc coach wrote:

i've had the opposite experience with men vs women coaches. So I guess your story is just anecdotal. There's a big world out there.

I don't think its that anecdotal bud. Look up stats on the number of female vs male head coaches int he sport. Do you really think that women are less capable of coaching?

Please post a link to the stats you reference.

Otherwise, you’re not allowed to throw a fit when someone disagrees with you. If they’re wrong, show it!

I just thought it was a given that Shalane is shadowing/learning from Jerry as a stepping stone to greater responsibility in the future. Be that as a potential replacement for Schumacher at BTC when he retires (she's 12 years younger than him) or taking on more responsibility as time goes on.

another perspective wrote:

I just thought it was a given that Shalane is shadowing/learning from Jerry as a stepping stone to greater responsibility in the future. Be that as a potential replacement for Schumacher at BTC when he retires (she's 12 years younger than him) or taking on more responsibility as time goes on.

This and she may even be an eventually co head coach. It would make sense to have her focus on a 10k/Half/Marathon group while Schumacher focuses on a 1500/Steeple/5k group.

Your post is very naive. The success at BTC - especially on the women’s side - is more a result of Shalanes involvement than Jerry’s... and it has been long before Shalane transitioned from athlete to coach.

Anyone can write workouts. Workout plans are really not the ‘secret’ to success of the best distance runners.

The two keys to a great coach are (a) to train an athlete as hard as possible without breaking them, and (b) to foster an alpha-competitive attitude.

The two things that limit athletes’ potential are injuries and self doubt.

Preventing injuries and promoting mental competitiveness are all about honest athlete-coach dialogue and communication. Athletes are often their own worst enemy in both respects.

It’s plainly evident that her athletes trust her and have confidence in her guidance. And she is dialled into their mental and physical state. That’s the value she adds as an assistant coach is - in many ways - more important than anyone else in the program.

Uh. Her role as coach? She is a coach. Many teams have multiple coaches. BTC has a recipe. She knows the recipe. Believes in the recipe and supports it. She is a huge draw to the team. She wins over new stars onto the team for opportunity to train under SF.

Disappointed in her coaching? You want her to steal BTC runners away and form a women’s fight club in downtown Portland?

badger miler wrote:

oianveioion wrote:

I don't think its that anecdotal bud. Look up stats on the number of female vs male head coaches int he sport. Do you really think that women are less capable of coaching?

Please post a link to the stats you reference.

Otherwise, you’re not allowed to throw a fit when someone disagrees with you. If they’re wrong, show it!

BA-BOOM!!! Now I'm not going to read for you, I hope you can manage yourself. Or maybe you'll just be throwing a fit...

for more education.

Precious Roy wrote:

You don't get to walk off the track and start coaching top US talent the next day. Being a great athlete does not mean that you will be a great coach.

Actually you do if you're a male former star in a bigtime professional sport.

Salazar had only coached Slaney before Nike named him as coach of NOP.