This whole Drew Hunter vs. Luis Grijalva thing...

But he will tell you that he is completely happy with his decision. The 5 of you are like a busybody neighbor who doesn't like the color of your new car but you love it. "If you are going to spend $50k, why not buy red instead of white. That is such a bad decision."

LangleyHighxc wrote:

Both ran well so there is reason to be excited about both of their prospects. Don't forget that Hunter is coming off some injuries and was not quite 100%. Let's hope they can get to the Bowerman level (13:00 or below; Kinkaid, Centro, Lomong) in a couple years.

Drew Hunter was injured 18 months ago. When are you going to stop using that as an excuse?

Drew needs a new coach. Tinman is not getting the job done.

So you are a huge Hunter fan? I didn't really know that he was so much more talented than other Americans.

Thorvaldson is the New FastTuohy wrote:

But he will tell you that he is completely happy with his decision. The 5 of you are like a busybody neighbor who doesn't like the color of your new car but you love it. "If you are going to spend $50k, why not buy red instead of white. That is such a bad decision."

I'm not sure what you're doing on a running forum if you take issue with me scrutinizing a professional runner.

Scrutinizing what? I laid out his priorities for you. You are questioning his decisions based on your priorities, not his.

Thorvaldson is the New FastTuohy wrote:

Scrutinizing what? I laid out his priorities for you. You are questioning his decisions based on your priorities, not his.

I am scrutinizing his decisions from the standpoint of him being the fastest runner possible. Because this is a running forum. Every other decision he makes is outside the scope of this forum. To be honest, his "happiness" doesn't factor into it. I want him to run as fast as possible. Because, and I repeat, this is a running forum. Why do weirdos like you have so much investment in his personal life? How do you know he's "happy"? Is he your friend?

Maybe you don't realize that running is his life. You sound a bit fixated on him and his life decisions. Maybe you should stick to being a sports fan and just watch the meets and appreciate the races. I don't care about who the runners' coaches are or how much training they are doing or what they are eating or who they are dating. You are too fixated on the personal life of this guy.

Thorvaldson is the New FastTuohy wrote:

Maybe you don't realize that running is his life. You sound a bit fixated on him and his life decisions. Maybe you should stick to being a sports fan and just watch the meets and appreciate the races. I don't care about who the runners' coaches are or how much training they are doing or what they are eating or who they are dating. You are too fixated on the personal life of this guy.

I'm not the one who cares so deeply about his happiness. I also don't claim to know his "priorities".

I am only judging him from a running standpoint. I don't care about his personal life or "priorities".

If you don't care about training or coaching then what are you doing on here?

it man wrote:

LangleyHighxc wrote:

Both ran well so there is reason to be excited about both of their prospects. Don't forget that Hunter is coming off some injuries and was not quite 100%. Let's hope they can get to the Bowerman level (13:00 or below; Kinkaid, Centro, Lomong) in a couple years.

Drew Hunter was injured 18 months ago. When are you going to stop using that as an excuse?

Drew needs a new coach. Tinman is not getting the job done.

Agreed. Let Drew move back to Virginia and have Radzco coach him for a year and I guarantee we would see a faster Drew. Lots of runners have strength, but to be successful at a higher level you must have strong closing speed. There’s no substitute for speed in the 5k. I think Drew has the ability, but I think his current coaching is not realizing his potential.

Finding people is my specialty so naturally I worked for the nazis finding people, and yes some of them were named Drew, but DREW HUNTER?! That is just a name that stuck.

Thorvaldson is the New FastTuohy wrote:

Scrutinizing what? I laid out his priorities for you. You are questioning his decisions based on your priorities, not his.

I'm going to guess that you have a problem with mainstream-sports fans and sports-talk radio too

Thorvaldson is the New FastTuohy wrote:

So you are a huge Hunter fan? I didn't really know that he was so much more talented than other Americans.

Well he has the 3rd fastest high school mile time in American history. The two ahead of him were very successful after high school.

Ryun set world records. Webb struggled in big meets but has very impressive PRs and an American record that has stood for 10+ years. Webb's PRs of 1:43, 3:30, 3:46, 13:10 and 27:34.

Webb ran 13:10 at 22 years old. He was 24 when he broke the mile record. Webb was relevant in big meets, 8th at world championships and won the IAAF golden league meet.

Drew is an afterthought at big meets. He has no kick. He's not close to being relevant. He is losing to people much younger than he is.

We need more info on Luis. Yes I know he ran 4:02 in HS but did he go to running powerhouse school? Good coaching? What kind of mileage was he doing in HS? It seems like a lot of the top HS runners now come from wealthier HS and you see the top HS traveling all over the USA to race. Did he have access to all the luxuries that all the top HS runner had?

I don’t want to judge but I once saw him being picked up after a meet in like an older civic but hey maybe his parents are just humble and don’t care about expensive cars.

robert678 wrote:

There are 2 primary components to talent: raw talent and trainability. The former is just inate ability (how good are they with little or no training), the latter just means how much one improves with training and how quickly they get in shape.

Luis has more talent in trainability, and Drew has more raw talent. Luis also has a better coach. If Luis gets a good pro coach he'll have the better career.

^this.

Drew hunter will never break 13 min in 5k.

Hes also a massive tool.

So you agree that he is a great talent but not on the level of Run or Webb or maybe even Grijalva? Sub 13 is probably a good lifetime goal.

I thought about it. I agree with all of you that he is the greatest talent of all-time. If he wanted to, he could switch coaches and break the 5k world record pretty easily.

Luis was introduced to 70 mile weeks by his senior year

Humidity is my altitude wrote:

I simply believe that Luis may have 10x the level of talent that Drew has, just that Drew has worked himself into the ground to get to the place that he is at. He still has quite the trajectory of improvement on the horizon, but I'm afraid you are about to see Luis blow EVERYONE out of the water...

Can you explain the perception that Drew has worked himself into the ground to me? I'm sure he works hard, but from what I've seen of Tinman training it seems on par with most college programs (lower mileage than some, higher intensity than others) and mid-level pro groups. This isn't to say I don't think they work hard, but rather that it seems like most good runners--college or pro--seem to work just as hard if not harder (based on snippets of training I've seen).

How are LG and DH different? Sure, DH is a little older, but they are both training at high levels and have solid pedigrees. Some may argue Mike Smith is a little more experienced at coaching this level of athlete but neither Tinman nor Smith has developed and continued to coach high level Olympians. That is not a slight to either as both are in the early years of their elite level coaching and Smith is generally focused on coaching his college team. I understand Smith is now coaching Rupp, but that is a different scenario than LG and DH.

So LG is in college. Not to put down a college, but NAU is not overly demanding academically and during this pandemic, most classes have shifted to online. Both have facilities and train at altitude. LG has slightly better training partners and DH gets paid. How are they THAT different? Why should we assume that DH would automatically beat LG and if he doesn't, he is a disappointment? In both races, DH took the brunt of the late work. That move helped both of them run faster but probably contributed to him losing. How is that failure?

When Rupp was 23-24 he ran 13:07 in a high level European meet. Neither DH or LG are that far off from that in December after racing a couple times.