Why is Ryan Vail training like a 1970s 10000 meter runner?

He probably wants to run 2:09. Sometimes that's good enough even today.

Perhaps he's looked at the results of current US runners and decided to go back to what was working for US runners.

looks good to me

Stay healthy!!!

There isn't much detail on the longer, non-workout runs, so you can't take much from that.

Although it certainly is different than what Renato is doing. I really don't know much about marathon training, but incorporating interval workouts at faster than marathon pace makes sense to me, as it will make your intended marathon pace feel that much easier. It's nice to stay fresh with turnover every once and awhile when you are slogging out the miles.

Hard to draw conclusions from pulling out a single week with little details and no context to the larger training plan.

Looks solid to me.

Everyone here is such an expert on "Canova" training. In a thread about Julien Wanders it was stated he does easy runs at xyz pace and based on this fact alone it was said he must be doing "Canova" training!

fitzroy wrote:

Perhaps he's looked at the results of current US runners and decided to go back to what was working for US runners.

+ 8

I kind of thought Ryan Vail was done. So I looked through his blog site. In the “Bio” section under the list of achievements, he’s claiming an 8th place finish in the 2018 Berlin Marathon. No joke. Apparently he’s prescient. No mention of Boston 2018, though, so I guess he’s not going to do too well there.

http://ryanvail.blogspot.com/p/bio.html

Yes, "where is the ... tempos"?

Hardloper wrote:

Everyone here is such an expert on "Canova" training. In a thread about Julien Wanders it was stated he does easy runs at xyz pace and based on this fact alone it was said he must be doing "Canova" training!

Agree, besides is "Canova" training the be all and end all? We seem to only hear about the successes of Canova training but how did Canova training work out for Bekele or Hall? It is difficult to say that one type of training methodology will work for "x" athlete without knowing the details.

Hasn't Vail had a pretty awesome career so far as it is? I guess he knows more than most about how to be training as a distance runner.

Ryan posts most of his training online. If you read more you would see that he follows Daniels training principles largely and has many tempos and long marathon specific workouts in his training (10-15 miles at MP, 4 Tempo +10 moderate + 4 Tempo). He also has backed off his training since his long stint of bony injuries a few years ago. Prior to that he was running 140-160 MPW consistently. His training now isn’t that mind blowing because be has over a decade of 120+ MPW and is trying to avoid bone injury and use that lifetime base to get under 2:10.

Correct!

he has lowered his volume, which you don't need 140-160 mile freaking weeks to run a fast race/marathon...Damn!

its a good mixture, mixing moderate tempos (EX 2-3-4-5 miles in length ) with those short Interval sessions, I think he will run a great time in boston! You dont need massive volume to run FAST. You gotta make it to the start line healthy!

And, Thanks to MR Vail, for taking his time to post and share with us all, OPENLY! many elite runners of his caliber (aka hind) there training.

Whats the point of 22 miles easy 8 weeks out from a marathon? 3-4 months ago it'd make sense, but why now? Is he still building up his long run mileage like one of those hobby jogger charity runners who's never run 26 miles and is just trying to get to the finish line? To me that's the definition of junk miles. It's not actually easy on your body and its also not a difficult as a true hard effort. It's just something you do because the calendar tells you to do it.

It seems that all western runners obsessively go for a long run every weekend, regardless of whether it serves any purpose. Slaves to the calendar and convention and ignorant to their bodies. It is not surprising this kid had a string bone injuries. He obsessively chases junk mileage.

If he moved away from the 7 day cycle and church of long run nonsense he wouldn't have to have a schedule that has 5 days of jogging and day off followed by cramming in a tempo workout and an interval workout in the next 3 days. Maybe he should sign up for one of those jogging competition, ultra thingys.

and you've run 2:12 right? typically Wanna be.

Because it worked then wrote:

He probably wants to run 2:09. Sometimes that's good enough even today.

lolz

dum dum dum dum wrote:

Whats the point of 22 miles easy 8 weeks out from a marathon?

...

If he moved away from the 7 day cycle and church of long run nonsense he wouldn't have to have a schedule that has 5 days of jogging and day off followed by cramming in a tempo workout and an interval workout in the next 3 days. Maybe he should sign up for one of those jogging competition, ultra thingys.

I think maybe you're trolling, but... even for sub-elites, a 22mi easy long runs doesn't bang up your body, requiring a change in schedule. Even Lydiard had his guys do a 22mi easy long run through mountains, and they turned right around the next day and did a 10mi steady state at just over 5 minutes per mile.

If you're a hobby jogger and slogging through that 22mi run in around 3 hours, then yes, that might be you up enough that you'd need days to recover. But not for elites, or even sub-elites

Did you look at the rest of his posts? Under "9 weeks until Boston" he did "long run 24 miles, progressing to 5:00," i.e. progressing to just slower than PR marathon pace. "Less than 3 weeks to Berlin" he did a 16 mile tempo at MP. 6 weeks to Berlin - 15 miles a little slower than MP.

Seems like he roughly alternates weekends of a long easy-pace run, then a fairly long run at close to MP. Mix in 1-2 higher-volume interval sessions and some short hills or strides each week. Weekly volume of 120-140 miles, reducing by 15-25% in the last few weeks before a race. All seems pretty consistent with modern approaches.

I’m just going to say it. He’s getting hurt from wearing those terrible shoes Brooks makes for non-runners. Seriously, you can’t run as much as Vail in “lifestyle” shoes that are designed for walking.

Give this man some 4%s!