How important is hurdling form to being great at the steeplechase? We asked the experts.

I feel having the proper hurdle form is more important for the sprinting hurdle races (i.e. 60H, 100/110H, 400H) as those races come down to the fraction of a second AND the hurdles are spaced between 8 to 35m (depending on gender and distance of race).

The steeplechase barriers are close to 80m apart, and a 3km race is a heck of a lot more aerobic than the sprints. Fractions of a second do not really matter - what matters is just not falling. Proper hurdle form could make you more efficient and perhaps lower the chances of an awkward landing after clearing the barrier, but if you're fast enough between the barriers to win, then why worry about the form?

Virtually none when it comes to the women.

All the hurdles races for women are a joke.

Just run baby.

How many tracks regularly have a steeplechase and water/jump to practice?

oldsteepleguy wrote:

Just run baby.

And jump

Let's change the Kenyans' steeple technique because it hasn't been working out for them. But seriously though, some are just comical.

http://media.aws.iaaf.org/media/Spikes/7e518a29-f6c1-4373-9051-8563fe8e21f4.png?v=1548219987

^^^ That, by the way, is 2015 world champ Hyvin Kiyeng.

Poor technique is what gives the Americans hope of a medal. Americans look at the SC and figure that they have a chance because they can out-technical the rest of the world, especially the Kenyans. In a flat 3000m, no way. Sheer athleticism wins out.

Agree that the vast majority of the race is running, not hurdling.

Greatest reward for training efforts will come from working to become a faster 3000m runner.

With great natural ability and athleticism you can hurdle ok with little training.

But you can only train so much for running. A top level pro steeplechaser will benefit from working some on their hurdle technique.

If the Kenyans worked more (at all) on their hurdle technique, they would be even faster and more dominant.

I do not understand why they do not practice hurdling. Many Kenyans spend time doing all sorts of other drills and exercises in addition to just running. Why not practice hurdling?

Lack of proper equipment is no excuse. Aside from stepping on the water jump barrier (which some do not do anyway) you can practice hurdling over improvised barriers made from sticks or such.

,jsbx wrote:

Poor technique is what gives the Americans hope of a medal. Americans look at the SC and figure that they have a chance because they can out-technical the rest of the world, especially the Kenyans. In a flat 3000m, no way. Sheer athleticism wins out.

At times I almost think that the way Kenyan's steeple is more economical. I think there's logic that the same hurdle technique that is quickest for a sprint race may not be as economical over a distance race. I'm no steeple expert but I think sometimes the goofy way Kenyans hurdle the steeple actually helps them maintain a better rhythm during the race. Over a 3000m steeple whoever's hurdle form allows them to keep their running rythm is far more important than whose form looks the best or who hurdles closest to a sprinter.

I never had some session with barriers with all my athletes, including the WR holder Stephen Cherono (Shaheen), his elder brother Christopher Koskei (WCh 1999), Wilson Boit Kipketer (WR holder before Barmasai and WCh 1997) and Dorcus Inzikuru (winner of the first edition WCh for women in 2005) when I was in Kenya. The reason is very simple : we didn't have barriers and water jumps for some specific training, at a level to guarantee a safe training.

However, we worked a lot in two different directions :

a) for increasing the ECCENTRIC STRENGTH. This is one of the most important points, since every time the runner lands needs to use a lot of eccentric strength (mainly in the water jump) for contrasting the load of the body, and this in percentage very much higher than during the normal run.

b) for increasing THE SPEED BEFORE THE BARRIER, not depending on the technique used for overtaking the barrier itself.

If you put together an American or European specialist of high level, and a Kenyan of high level, 10 meters BEFORE a barrier, and look where they are 10 meters AFTER the barrier, you can see that the technique of the American or European is very much better, but... the Kenyan is able to earn 3 meters in these 20m, including the barrier.

This is what makes steeple similar cross country : the ability to increase the personal speed every time you are in front of some obstacle (in cross country maybe a hill, or a stream you have to overtake jumping, or simply a turn, wher European decrease the speed, and Kenyans increase).

Of course, if Kenyans could maintain the same approach to the barriers as speed, using a better technique when overtake the hurdle, their times could be still better. But it's a fact that 99% of the performance is connected with the ability to run fast, and the training for steeple is a full training of middle distance, where the most important goal is to improve the ability to run fast.

In Italy, we had important specialists who used technical training very little : Francesco Panetta, when won WCh in steeple with 8'08" celebrating in the last furlong (could easily run 8'06") in 1987, few days before won silver in 10000m, and had 27'24" and 13'06" of PB. I remember the last 50 meters in European Championships 1990, when he attacked the last barriers 2 meters behind Rowland, who was fastest than him in 1500m (3'34") and had the same level in steeple (8'07"96 in OG 1988), and was able to have the reactive strength for sprinting in the last 50m defeating him (and never Panetta was good in the final sprint, but after the last barrier was fresher because was more prepared in the eccentric contraction).

Also Lambruschini (bronze medal in OG 1996) didn't use to work too much in technique, only running two times in the last month some repetition with barriers but without water jump.

And, before them, Franco Fava was mainly a runner of 10000m going to Marathon in OG 1976, like Giuseppe Gerbi, 6th in steeple in OG 1980 but Italian Champ of Marathon with 2:11. These athletes practically never used technical training for steeple.

Surely these runners would be more efficient with more technical practice.

Renato Canova wrote:

This is what makes steeple similar cross country : the ability to increase the personal speed every time you are in front of some obstacle (in cross country maybe a hill, or a stream you have to overtake jumping, or simply a turn, wher European decrease the speed, and Kenyans increase).

Of course, if Kenyans could maintain the same approach to the barriers as speed, using a better technique when overtake the hurdle, their times could be still better. But it's a fact that 99% of the performance is connected with the ability to run fast, and the training for steeple is a full training of middle distance, where the most important goal is to improve the ability to run fast.

.

Great minds think alike, Renato. I've been saying this for over 40 years.

The problem with those who preach "technique" is that 90% of them don't know what good steeplechase technique is. Back in the day, I used to hear idiots proudly proclaim that Henry Rono (and Kenyans in general) had poor technique, which was categorically untrue. Henry's hurdling was textbook - led with a bent knee, even keeping bent through clearance. I even posted videos of Henry to debunk the notion, by showing Henry leaving his competition in the dust OVER the barriers. Obviously he was doing something right.

Look at how many steeplechasers, especially women, try to stiff-leg it over the barriers. That's not good hurdling at all. Totally wrong, yet you see it over and over. Hurdling is all about a smooth trajectory. In the steeplechase it involves spatial awareness in front, to the sides, and behind you. There's a lot going on, and the steeplechaser MUST be able to make split second adjustments to his takeoff spot. Since you are clearing an immovable object there is no room for error. A high clearance is necessary. Those who try to skim the barriers will soon become ex-steeplechasers.

Since it is against the rules to mark your ideal takeoff on the track, and there is too much going on in the approach to accurately find the ideal takeoff, a steeplechaser had better have technique that allows room to improvise.

If you take a look at the trajectory of steeplechasers you'll see that the apogee of the trajectory will be about a half meter in front of the barrier. Imagine if you transect with the top of the barrier horizontally and through the trajectory curve where the bottom of the buttocks is during flight, you'll see the area of clearance opportunity each steeplechaser has to work with. If the runners takeoff is just a half meter closer to the barrier, he'll need more veritical force to get over it. Leading with that bent knee becomes even more important here. Stiff-leg it and you won't clearing the barrier smoothly. If the steeplechasers takeoff point is a half meter in front of the ideal, he's now running the risk of ruin - hitting that barrier with the trailing knee.

The objective of hurdling is to get your butt over the barrier smoothly, it is not to lock your knees and point your toes (nothing but trouble).

During indoor track practice my freshman year in college, my coach found out I was an aspiring hurdler in junior high and had me run some hurdles. So in the spring my coach put me in the steeplechase. The problem I had was that I was taught how to High Hurdle and although it looked good, my form was too exaggerated and inefficient for the steeple. "Looking under your eyebrows" going over steeple barriers didn't work to well. Eventually (by my junior year) I was able to tame it down and become more relaxed and use less energy. Not that I ever really did that well at the steeple.

These are reasonable points (99% running and get over smoothly), but accelerating at every barrier is inefficient. Ideally, the speed should be maintained and carried over the hurdle.

This is one reason that Jager beat Kemboi in the 2016 Olympics. Kemboi was accelerating at every water jump but still only coming out even with Jager and Kipruto. By the last 100m, Kemboi had used all his accelerations. In Jager's 8:00 Paris race (the fall), Birech was losing 2m every water jump to Jager with a 2 foot, upright landing, but making up for it by accelerating again. Yes, they are getting the job done well overall, but they could use less energy and that certainly should translate to better times and kicks.

If form doesn't matter why is a 4:18 1500 runner the collegiate record holder in the steeple? Allie Ostrander has run 4:18 for 1500 but only 9:55 for steeple this year. And this is for women where barriers mean less. I'm not saying hurdle form is irrelevant but it obviously helps non Africans close the gap.

Henry Marsh was all about hurdle technique and he was a bit faster than malmo.. Marsh even learned to hurdle off either leg.

Every steeplechaser can hurdle with either leg, son.

Not that common wrote:

How many tracks regularly have a steeplechase and water/jump to practice?

Nearly all universities. High schools not so much.