Improve running without running?

I'm in the same boat. I wonder what Letsrun has to offer

Depending on your injury, try running and drill in place. High knees, side-side, skips, buttkicks, hopping on one leg/both legs, I like putting an old pillow on the floor and doing hard sprinting action in bursts. Walter George, legendary 19th century WR mile record holder (4:12) did similar. You can get in a good workout with videos or music cranked up.

Where/what is the injury?

FLOTRACK NOT GOOD! wrote:

Where/what is the injury?

Big toe injury, as yet undiagnosed but running is a big no.

Anyone improved their running in their time off?

800ftw. wrote:

I've been injured for many months now. I have been lightly cross training but could do a lot more.

My question is this:

Has anyone ever improved their running without running?

Is it possible to get up so much fitness and strength from vigorous cross training and lifting that when you come back to running you are ready to perform to a higher level than where you left off?

Thanks!

Hi, join the club. I've had a hamstring problem for exactly a year, morton's neuroma in August, ankle tendonopathy and a sprain in that ankle since before Christmas, a ligament rubbing since and yesterday I stood on the garden hose and lightly sprained the other ankle. But when I have been training it has been quick, why? Extra planking, sit-ups and balancing exercises. Try to keep injury weight gain to a minimum, less than 2kg/4.4llbs and it will only take two runs to return to normal fitness levels whereas large weight gains take considerably longer, so starve yourself. Any lower limbs injuries should be bandaged at night. Lydiard always advocated going to a pool, grabbing a beginner's kick board and just kicking. Arch Jelley swears by aqua-jogging, but the chlorine hurts my teeth.

You just need to keep sweating it out.

Thanks for the advice.

Also bump

Crossfit, right?

I want to improve my free throws but I don't want to shoot free throws..

Runrincerepeat wrote:

I want to improve my free throws but I don't want to shoot free throws..

But seriously, surely I can get a large aerobic benefit from say cycling, then also work running specific muscles in the gym?

800ftw. wrote:

But seriously, surely I can get a large aerobic benefit from say cycling, then also work running specific muscles in the gym?

Cycling is a push process. In running you need to lift your knees and draw your legs forward during the gait cycle, something that can't be duplicated in cycling without specialized equipment. This isn't minor, it's a significant source of energy consumption when running.

I was injured one winter in college and CC skied, skate, a lot and went on to PR after only a few weeks of running, 800m.

In high school, when I skied a lot, I was able to get much closer, much faster, to PR 800m fitness than I was in college, when I ran all winter. My college PB's are very slightly faster than my HS PB's.

To answer your question, yes. CC skiing can, in my view, improve your running more than running can, when in conjunction with a small amount of running.

Running is not good for running for reasons you are currently aware of....injuries.

CC skiing allows a much lower propensity to injury while also allowing you to train at an elevated heart rate for hours more per week, and develops a more diverse set of muscle and coordination.

I feel a monster base of skiing, mixed with a small amount of running, followed by a few weeks of running exclusively yields fitness equal to running alone with much lower chance of injury, potentially allowing years of uninterrupted training.

I have a theory too wrote:

800ftw. wrote:

But seriously, surely I can get a large aerobic benefit from say cycling, then also work running specific muscles in the gym?

Cycling is a push process. In running you need to lift your knees and draw your legs forward during the gait cycle, something that can't be duplicated in cycling without specialized equipment. This isn't minor, it's a significant source of energy consumption when running.

I´ve had very good experiences from cycling. You have to use the hip flexors too on cycling. Finnish former 13:28 5k runner Samuli Vasala (-72 Munich 1500 Olympic champion Pekka Vasala was his uncle or so) was forced to cycle a lot once with little running and he dropped from 3:41 to 3:38 at 1500. He believed the cycling gave him the extra strength on the 1500. Plenty of another examples too.

I have a theory too wrote:

800ftw. wrote:

But seriously, surely I can get a large aerobic benefit from say cycling, then also work running specific muscles in the gym?

Cycling is a push process. In running you need to lift your knees and draw your legs forward during the gait cycle, something that can't be duplicated in cycling without specialized equipment. This isn't minor, it's a significant source of energy consumption when running.

Personally I disagree that running is not a push process. You push off the ground just like you push down on a pedal. The reaction you get back in running is from the ground and through the elastic energy stored in the achilles tendon during the gait cycle. My main concern is that cycling won't work the calves which are vital to running.

Stand barefoot on one leg and swing the other leg back and forth. You can also try holding a 5 pound weight while you do this. I ran a marathon in the fall and then did not run for 3 months over the winter. However, I did this daily. Then I went on my first run for 9 miles in hilly technical trails. It took me an entire week to heal but I didnt get injured. Then ran another 9 miles. I let myself heal for another week and then ran 10, and then ran another 10 mid week on trails. Then I added another 10 the week after. All on trails however and at moderate/leisure pace. Walking at the end of the run is fine if tired. The point was to get back to marathon shape quickly after 3 months off. It worked great for me.

800ftw. wrote:

I've been injured for many months now. I have been lightly cross training but could do a lot more.

My question is this:

Has anyone ever improved their running without running?

Is it possible to get up so much fitness and strength from vigorous cross training and lifting that when you come back to running you are ready to perform to a higher level than where you left off?

Thanks!

Yes, sort of, it really depends on what shape you were in prior to injury. I had an injury that kept me out for 16 weeks once, for 12 weeks I did 16 hours on the elliptical a week, always at 10 or higher incline, always averaging >200 strides a minute and was in pr shape within a month of returning to running, was nowhere near pr shape prior to injury. But the mind numbing monotony of it was hell.

800ftw. wrote:

I have a theory too wrote:

Cycling is a push process. In running you need to lift your knees and draw your legs forward during the gait cycle, something that can't be duplicated in cycling without specialized equipment. This isn't minor, it's a significant source of energy consumption when running.

Personally I disagree that running is not a push process

That isn't what I said. Just pointing out the running has a component that cycling lacks.

Have you read lore of running? Or about turn of the 20th century training. They did get remarkable times off of basically no training walking and a couple of sprints a week. But they grew up doing nothing but walking and working etc so they had An aerobic engine but the training was comical ..

Per the book. Joe ran a world record mile in 1902 of 4:16.8. He trained one evening per week for 30 minutes where he ran 5-6x 110 yards at top speed finishing w a fast 200-300 yards.

My best 400 (53) and tie for 800(2:05) pr was off of weight lifting and riding a stationary bike while waiting several months for a meniscus problem to go away.

2-3 hours bike a week, nothing longer than 48on the bike minutes, and lots of weights for reps. I guess I am the type of runner that sucks, and running doesn't help either.

800ftw. wrote:

I've been injured for many months now. I have been lightly cross training but could do a lot more.

My question is this:

Has anyone ever improved their running without running?

Is it possible to get up so much fitness and strength from vigorous cross training and lifting that when you come back to running you are ready to perform to a higher level than where you left off?

Thanks!

I am not injured. For the past 6 weeks I've been doing race walking training (first time I've ever done this) as a big part of my aerobic build up. Sometimes I walk and then gradually blend in a little running. Other times I walk the whole workout except for the last 3-5 miles. At first I could only walk a 120 steps/minute 14:00 mile. Now I'm at 150 steps/minute 12:00 miles for 7 miles. Last night I did up to 170 steps/minute:

11mi 1:46 9:37avg, HR 137avg 178pk, 768cal.

W 11:53, W 10:23, W 9:07, W 9:17, W 8:32, W 9:05, W 12:29, W 8:51, W 11:44, W 8:25, R 6:14.7 (3:25, 2:50).

Rec1min 177>138 = 39bpm,

Rec2min 177>120 = 57bpm.

You can see it the higher steps tempo that I get a decent heart rate going for good aerobic training.

I just ran the last mile at a real comfortable tempo. That peak heart rate of 178 was in that mile I ran.

Below 11 minutes pace I'm not doing perfectly legal race walking, because I'm bending my knees just a little bit too much, but it's very low impact and I really have to focus to do it. And it's really a lot of fun!

Anyway I went outside today and just did a little running, and after about a 15 minute warm up, I was doing pickups for 3/10 mile at 5:33 - 5:11 pace, real comfortable. I know this race walking is really improving my running strength and timing. I'm looking forward to my spring races.

You might want to try it too.