What are the chances some top runners are using an "unknown" PED?

NOP?

100%

Do you seriously believe that?

I suppose they would be amongst those who have the resources to do so.

Do research on peptides. They are no tests for them.

Before Monday, had you ever heard of meldonium?

100%.

Exactly...I'd think there are plenty more "undiscovered" pharmaceudicals already available that have the potential to enhance performance. With a "motivated" pharmacist, physician, biochemist, physiologist, etc, involved in the process of scouting out and testing these drugs, let alone developing new ones, it seems the sky's the limit.

bernie madoff wrote:

NOP?

100%

NOP a million percent.

Realistically, it can't be the "little guy" who could pull this off. It would require quite some resources. Obviously, NOP has incredible resources, but then again, I think they are no match to a government run program, such as Ethiopia or China, who not only has access to many more "test subjects" as well.

it meant to say "who not only has the ability to do what they wish without any oversight (obtain and give drugs, experiment on athletes, etc.), but also has access to many more "test subjects".

Victor Cone, bass guitar player for Tower of Power, did it by spending time in the library and lab.

THG wasn't detectable until some jealous biotch sent in a sample.

first off would be many epo variants ,(nike epo)

no worries for epo test ,just the passport so stil got to microdose

Consider this.... wrote:

I'm not talking about getting away with using a currently known PED, but rather, one that is unknown to the running community at-large. I don't know how likely it is, but I'd imagine it is very possible for such PEDs to be developed, given the sophistication of modern pharmacology.

It's widely circulated and vouched for that the PED products are 5-10 years ahead of the testing. As aforementioned, there are new products (peptides, and other by products of the larger pharma/life-saving industry) that have trickled into sports.

Dr. Steve Brule wrote:

Consider this.... wrote:

I'm not talking about getting away with using a currently known PED, but rather, one that is unknown to the running community at-large. I don't know how likely it is, but I'd imagine it is very possible for such PEDs to be developed, given the sophistication of modern pharmacology.

It's widely circulated and vouched for that the PED products are 5-10 years ahead of the testing. As aforementioned, there are new products (peptides, and other by products of the larger pharma/life-saving industry) that have trickled into sports.

If this is true, which I absolutely do not doubt, the top-tier of PED users will continue never to be caught until years after the fact, if then. This paints an extremely bleak picture for those aspiring to win medals, but also remain free and clear of aids unobtainable by their competitors, either legally or not.

On the other hand, I think it would be a rare individual, who having this knowledge, would turn down using a yet "unknown" aid to boost their performance if they were assured that this aid was safe and not illegal. Furthermore, the herds of runners in government-run programs probably don't have a clue what's being added to their porridge anyhow, so their consciences are clean.

The athletes are always using new PEDs before the testers know what to test for.

It's a win-win situation.

The athletes keep running fast and getting glory.

And drug research and testing becomes a big business in itself.

And having too many positive tests hurts business for both parties.

Because if money dries up for sports, it dries up for testing the athletes.

Star wrote:

It's a win-win situation.

Except for the runner without the resources or desire to be part of the charade.

Consider this.... wrote:

I'm not talking about getting away with using a currently known PED, but rather, one that is unknown to the running community at-large. I don't know how likely it is, but I'd imagine it is very possible for such PEDs to be developed, given the sophistication of modern pharmacology.

It wouldn't surprise me if some of best sub elites use PED, I'm talking the 1:06 to like 1:10 half guys. They can go win races with out even having to worry about getting tested, so nothing really for them to lose. With that said, it wouldn't surprise me if even some of the people on the lower end of the speed scale have tried them or are using them thinking that they will become fast.

Consider this.... wrote:

Star wrote:

It's a win-win situation.

Except for the runner without the resources or desire to be part of the charade.

OK, it's a win-win-lose

But my point still is that predominant use of new PEDs is good business for drug testers.

I think the biological passport is limiting what can be done with PEDs, but not eliminating them. The biological passport does not try to detect any particular drug, but instead tests for the effects of PEDs on key biological markers that enhance performance. Men's marathon times have been kept in check recently. A few years ago, everyone was coming out of the woodwork to pop off 2:04-06s in marathons. This past marathon season has seen very normal times in NY, Chicago, and Boston. The superfast times in London and Berlin were run by the best in the sport and not by some guy who was just a training partner/rabbit who came out of nowhere. Dubai is supremely suspicious.

So, sure. There are probably lots of different new PEDs out there, but biological passport is a good tool to at least push back on off the wall performances.