Need help/advice with Cross Country Season

1:58 as a Sophomore, nice job. Keep banking on that event, you should get a nice scholarship. As far as Cross, I think your problem is that you are a fast track guy and in a 800 you always know how far you got to go to the finish. In XC, as well as road racing, trail running and marathons; you sometimes lose your situational bearings and you forget how to manage the race because you are not sure how far it is to the finish. This mid race mental no mans land adds to your perceived fatigue and you find yourself slowing down until you get into kicking range to the finish and you snap out of it and blast to the finish.

The best way to break this mental lag is to focus on racing the field, don't think about pace, first leg, middle leg and your kick. Just race the field and keep passing as many jerseys as you can catch to the finish. Don't think about the occasional guy that may pass you mid race, just focus on the guy in front of you. You will catch the other guy later on. Longer racing is always about managing yourself in the moment, staying relaxed and focused and that focus is always on catching and passing the next guy. And always remember that you got that monster kick that will catch 4 or 5 more guys at the finish. Have fun and use XC to build your base for your money event. Good Luck.....

Check this out:

http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/go-zone-racing

. I give this to my runners & he it seems to help them.

I would remind you to remember you're racing a longer race than in track season. Most runners go out way too fast & blow-up by the 2nd mile or, worst, the 1st mile! Back off the throttle--esp. for the first mile & watch how many people you pass during a race. There are no medals for winning the first mile in a 5K!

Good luck!

As for some in race advice, try this perhaps...

Run an XC race with the goal of constantly passing runners and never being passed. You might start out slower, but your confidence will go up as you pick guys off as the race goes on.

Think of your races in terms of plus/minus. You want to be passing(+) more runners than you get passed by (-). This strategy might be a better race plan for the XC 5k, and it might work to your strengths later in the race.

Thank you so much for this advice. I will mentally tackle my next race much differently. I truly appreciate the help! I am definitely going to try everything you mention in this message.

Thank you for the link! I will incorporate that into my next race as well.

Thank you very much as well for this advice. I cannot wait now to race next week :)

henfish wrote:

Thank you so much for this advice. I will mentally tackle my next race much differently. I truly appreciate the help! I am definitely going to try everything you mention in this message.

Oh, one other tid bit that you may know already. In XC it helps to be fast and if you are in shape you will be. You may not be the State Champ but you can be effective by getting your best place in each race. That's the fun part of XC it's about getting the best placing as a team and you can win a meet without having the fastest guy in the field. So, don't focus on speed but focus on training and race execution and the fast times will come. Be patient and committed to continue improvement over time. You may surprise yourself with a big breakout performance.

H.S. Coach #16490 wrote:

Check this out:

http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/go-zone-racing

. I give this to my runners & he it seems to help them.

I would remind you to remember you're racing a longer race than in track season. Most runners go out way too fast & blow-up by the 2nd mile or, worst, the 1st mile! Back off the throttle--esp. for the first mile & watch how many people you pass during a race. There are no medals for winning the first mile in a 5K!

Good luck!

Yes to this.

The only other thing to mention is try not to 'race' the workouts so when race day comes you have a race in you. Maybe you are doing that already

Just an update. Had a meet today (2 miles) and ran an 11:27. Placewise I took 25th which was actually a somewhat better position to last week in relation to the amount of people. I still struggled a bit mentally the last half mile but overall, I felt more in control of the race. I got outkicked which should not have happened but that is a separate issue I will work on. Once again, thanks for the advice, it really is starting to show.

henfish wrote:

Just an update. Had a meet today (2 miles) and ran an 11:27. Placewise I took 25th which was actually a somewhat better position to last week in relation to the amount of people. I still struggled a bit mentally the last half mile but overall, I felt more in control of the race. I got outkicked which should not have happened but that is a separate issue I will work on. Once again, thanks for the advice, it really is starting to show.

Glad I was able to help. Keep in mind that the control you experienced is a result of focusing on the moment during the race and having a good read on how you feel and having confidence in your fitness. That confidence is enforced through racing and good practice sessions. That is how you come to know your capabilities and how to work on energy management and pushing through pain thresholds. Focus on recognizing those thresholds in you next quality tempo or speed workout. Take note of how you feel during those workouts and work on pushing your effort level when the fatigue starts to build. Call it weight training for mental toughness.

Let's face it, racing and training hard is uncomfortable and if you are not uncomfortable you know you are not giving your best effort. Don't confuse discomfort with pain. If you experience pain, that is your body telling you something is wrong and you should tell your coach. But discomfort is part of what I call running the razors edge. It is that point where your body wants to shut down but you still have that extra gear to keep pushing. Managing the discomfort and pushing the pace, while running on the razors edge, is the key to successful racing. The key to managing that discomfort is to focus on your competition and not how you feel and that is where mental toughness comes into play. Mental toughness is your ability to push the discomfort to the back of your mind and just focus and passing the next competitor in front of you and pushing for the best scoring position for the team. Keep up the hard work and most importantly have fun.

I don't think your running your miles fast enough. In your case it'd be a good idea to focus on some high end aerobic miles, to build aerobic capacity and aerobic base. Just focus on working down to about 6:50-7:10 for those everyday miles, and I think you'll see a big improvement. Please report back w/ how this goes. Good luck!

This is a puzzling one, as there is no way someone who can run 1:58 and 4:30's should have PRs of 10:40 and 17:57. Even if you are more of an 800 guy, you are clearly capable of more.

I had a 4:30 guy last year who ran 9:30. I constantly told him that his way to a fast 3200 was to get to the mile mark anywhere from 4:45 to 4:50, BUT to get there feeling great. He nailed his good time when he finally went out in 4:50 evenly paced.

So, I think you have to concentrate a lot on the first half of your cross country races. If you can run 4:30, then there is no reason why going out in 5:30 should stress you as long as you get there evenly paced. Get to the mile mark feeling good. Then, just concentrate on passing people. You should get under 17 very soon, and you can probably be near 16 or under.

The other thing that has worked for me to help kids develop their last mile is to stress to always work the last 25% of everything. Make the last 25% of every interval the fastest part. Make the last 25% of all repeats the fastest ones. Do progressive tempo runs. Do some speed after a longer warmup, so you are working some tired legs.

I doubt this is a mental thing, as anyone who can run 4:30 has what it takes mentally. You should be up to 2 minutes faster in XC, so change up your approach and see what happens.

Did you only run 2 miles because it was so hot?

Some (larger 800m) guys don't run well in the heat and things might work out in October when it cools off.

Also you want to run your workouts on Tuesdays and Thursdays at paces that are appropriate for your 5k XC times and NOT your 1:58 800m time. Run those workouts near the guys who finish around you during XC races and not as hard as you can. Ideally, you only want to run as hard as you can during XC during XC races. This is different than 800 training.

henfish wrote:

Just an update. Had a meet today (2 miles) and ran an 11:27. Placewise I took 25th which was actually a somewhat better position to last week in relation to the amount of people. I still struggled a bit mentally the last half mile but overall, I felt more in control of the race. I got outkicked which should not have happened but that is a separate issue I will work on. Once again, thanks for the advice, it really is starting to show.

Have you run an all out 800 or 1600 recently? Knowing your PR's from a few months ago doesn't help much now as I'd estimate that you cannot run close to those times now. If your 1600 fitness right now is closer to 5:30 than 4:30, then I think we'd all understand why you seem to be having a bit of a slump.

Keep at it. Listen to your coach.

How good do you want to be?

Start running easy doubles. Just 30 minutes here or there. Probably best to start this in the offseason so you aren't jeopardizing your ability to recover in-season with all the workouts already. Realistically you aren't going to improve much in the next month by doing what we say in addition to the load your coach has already started. Think longterm. Doubling is going to help you a lot.

P.S. Without seeing the actual workouts I like your coach's schedule a lot (assuming you take Sunday off). Remember that you're young. Hopefully your volume increases a little each year, but don't try to force it right now.

Thanks for this. I will start taking my easy days harder. My coach recommended this so I sped mine up to 7:20. But I will take this a step farther.

I will implement this as well into my training. I will keep you updated.

^%#9a-8sjio wrote:

Did you only run 2 miles because it was so hot?

Some (larger 800m) guys don't run well in the heat and things might work out in October when it cools off.

Also you want to run your workouts on Tuesdays and Thursdays at paces that are appropriate for your 5k XC times and NOT your 1:58 800m time. Run those workouts near the guys who finish around you during XC races and not as hard as you can. Ideally, you only want to run as hard as you can during XC during XC races. This is different than 800 training.

That race just happened to be a two mile xc race. I am actually not very large, about the same size as everyone on my team with a bit more upper body lean muscle. I don't do much better or worse than others in the heat. And I will try out your workout suggestion as well! thank you

No I have not. But we are training for 5k's so I am not expecting an 800 or 1600 PR. I know I cannot run those times now but being in better shape for the 5k should be yielding better results in the 5k. So I don't really know what is the problem.