Mid-D to Marathon Advice

BUMP

Please, anyone with marathon experience, let me know what you think

Good grief. You've usually run 50-60 mpw and you want to build up to 130 or whatever? That's rather ambitious. Well, not in itself ambitious, but it is given the time frame you're wanting. What's your previous mileage high? In all likelihood, most (though probably not all) people would get injured if they ramped up mileage like that, even if over a period of a few months. Usually when building up the mileage, one stays at a consistent mileage for a while before moving up again.

I guess you'll find out rather quickly whether or not your body will take the mileage increases well.

Previous mileage high was 85 mpw. For a month I managed a jump from approx 60 mpw immediately to 3 twice-a-day easy 7 milers, 3 twice-days of 3 miles easy in morning with 5-6 miles speed in afternoon, and 1 day of 12-15 mile long run. I handled the training fine, but became overwhelmed with course work as finals rolled around and dropped down to around 20 mpw for 3 weeks or so because of finals. Haven't ever built back up to that high.I would like to note, though, that I've been running for 6 years, and have not had a single injury

bobballen_18 wrote:

Good grief. You've usually run 50-60 mpw and you want to build up to 130 or whatever? That's rather ambitious. Well, not in itself ambitious, but it is given the time frame you're wanting. What's your previous mileage high? In all likelihood, most (though probably not all) people would get injured if they ramped up mileage like that, even if over a period of a few months. Usually when building up the mileage, one stays at a consistent mileage for a while before moving up again.

I guess you'll find out rather quickly whether or not your body will take the mileage increases well.

PRs?

800m 1:57

1500m 4:16

1600m 4:29

3200m 10:02

5K 17:09 - note it was on 30-40 mpw in high school, haven't raced a 5K in 2 years but can currently hit 5:30s for 4 mile tempo runs

OK, that's good that you took that month of increase well, and also that you've never had any injury. But 85 mpw for one month is tons different than running 120 and 130 mile weeks for three months, or whatever you have there as the plan. You're only asking for your first ever injury by doing that, with a current mileage "PR" of 85 miles in a week. I think that instead of doing 120 and 130 mile weeks for three months, in the same time span, you should max out at 100, perhaps with a cycle of 2-3 weeks at 100, and 1 week "recovery/reload". You can't mess around when doing high mileage, and recovery weeks which give not only less quality, but less volume, tend to be very beneficial to runners, especially when running volume which the body has never experienced until recently.

So, I mean, if you are extremely set on doing 12 straight weeks of 110-130 miles, then, well, that's your prerogative, and as I mentioned before, you will find out soon enough if you can sustain that kind of mileage. But I would think that it is better to be safe than sorry; you may injure yourself before you are able to catch yourself at that volume. That volume simply isn't necessary, unless one has gradually built up to it over time without any major issues.

I have another marathon I'd liketo run, but is in November next year. Would you suggest skipping the August one, drawing out the build-up to 16-24 weeks and maintaining high mileage 12-16 weeks? Or continue planning on racing the August marathon, maxing at 100-110, then my deload weeks at 80-90?

Part of the reason I want to hit quite high mileage and have a solid training block is because I want my marathon debut to be sub-2:40 at the highest. I already do drills and prehab regularly. I'm also not opposed to doing three-a-days for recovery or easy days

I'd say if you want to even make it to your planned debut marathon, don't go and average over 100mpw. Your current mileage PR is 85 and you've only ever averaged 50-60mpw over a period of time. I would even say that even 100-110 high weeks and 80-90 for "deload" weeks is ambitious with your current highs. Not that I'm an extremely experienced marathoner, or even coach in general, but if I were coaching a debut marathon for someone with your highs, I would not have him average over 70mpw for the cycle - maybe if he was really gung-ho about it, then I would let him do 80 average, but no more. It's just really risky to increase mileage the amount you want to do. You seem awfully set on reaching the 100 mark and staying there. I'm just telling you that sure, it's possible, you might make it there without getting injured, but you can't assume that and I would absolutely not recommend doing it.

I have a few suggestions for you:

1. Build mileage much more slowly. 10% increases will most likely get you injured, and if not, you will not have enough time to recover between workouts and will find yourself unable to hit a higher gear in races. I like to build per Jack Daniel's recommendation of running 3 weeks at a given mileage, then increasing by the number of runs. So if you are running 50 in 6 runs, you would do 50 for 3 weeks, then move up to 56 for three weeks, etc.

2. Don't worry about your weight. I'm 5' 7" at 135 lbs, 6% body fat, and have run 1:10 half marathons off of 40 mpw. I believe that as you train and eat healthily your body will find its most efficient setpoint. Trying to achieve a very low body weight in the hopes that your performances will improve will also usually lead to injury. I experienced that 4 or 5 years ago when I dropped down to 124 lbs and ended up on the sidelines.

3. I like the deload week as this should help your body to improve.

Take a long-term approach to running and you will continue to improve. I hope you achieve your goals!

Wes

Some good advice so far but everyone seems to be dancing around the elephant.

Why do you want to run a marathon?

Why do you want to run the marathon so soon?

Why do you want to run the marathon on training that doesn't allow your body the time it needs to become capable of it's best possible marathon?

You have done nothing to indicate that you will be any good at running the marathon at all. Spend your sophomore, junior and senior years running 70 to 90 mpw and racing good 5k through 10k times on the roads. If it turns out your 10k or 10 mile time is better than your 5k time, then aim for the marathon.

@ Wes C.

Thank you. I may likely implement that type of progression. And I understand the concerns with dieting while training. I eat very healthily as is, but am hoping to reduce chance of overcompensating for calories as well as losing weight too fast. I had planned on finding my BMR, adding 100 calories for each mile ran in a day, then subtracting 500 so I lose only approx 1 lb per week until I am satisfied. Should I perhaps aim for slower since I have 30-40 weeks?

I am thinking I would like to be at my race weight at least 2-3 weeks before I begin my taper block such that I can resume a maintenance calorie diet to have more energy to thrash the more difficult runs. I am also considering a maintenance calorie ketosis diet the for the last 3 weeks before the race, then 3-4 days out, reintroduce carbs to my diet in hopes of super compensating my glycogen stores. What do you think of both these plans?

@*)&UHsadfohi

I perform better at mid-distance obviously, but I enjoy longer races much more. My favorite workouts are tempo runs and long runs. I think I would really enjoy running a marathon in itself. I'm also very competitive, and if I intend to run it, I intend to prepare myself to run a time I consider quite difficult but within reach. Two of my best friends are distance runners who opted not to run in uni. We three are planning on running a fall marathon next year. As far as the training goes, that's why I am here asking for advice. I have some knowledge on programming a running schedule, but very little at this distance, and I am having trouble finding information for runners with the same hopeful race PR. Most of the information online I can find is for people with little to no experience running at all. I doubt I'll ever be winning or placing in big marathons, but I want to strengthen myself nearly to or at a sub-elite level. So I guess all-in-all it's about running a distance I get much more pleasure from, while setting what I see as proper goals for myself