Letsrun, train me to run a 16:XX 5K!

So to get the discussion going, I was always really light on my tempo work. I would do maybe 6 tempos AN ENTIRE YEAR and opt instead for hard hill repeats, mile paced 200s & 400s, 800s & 1000s at 5K pace, and very rarely mile repeats. I trained too hard and too fast.

I'm looking to do more THRESHOLD (if my 5K pace is 5:25, I would run 7 miles at 6:25), and more TEMPOS (if my 5K pace is 5:25, I would run 4 miles at 5:55 pace). I'm thinking these were the missing ingredients that would have lead to my success.

What is your regular run?

* should get your regular run up to 8 miles a day

* Long run should be 11-12 miles

* What workouts have you done?

* Take 1 day off a week

I remember when I was running 17:30-ish for 5k - your 10k PR time looks like a split on route to a half marathon. Curious as to why it is so slow.

easy weeks wrote:

I remember when I was running 17:30-ish for 5k - your 10k PR time looks like a split on route to a half marathon. Curious as to why it is so slow.

I'm AWFUL at longer races. Truly AWFUL. I have trouble with my pacing and not sure what my speed should be for a 10K. My best 8K at my peak was at 5:58 pace...not great.

In half marathons, I get beat frequently by guys + girls with much slower 5K times. I never really work on my long game, but I greatly excel at workouts like 12x200 in 32 seconds with 200m recovery.

Train yourself back to 17:30 shape, then bump up this thread.

wigent23 wrote:

What is your regular run?

* should get your regular run up to 8 miles a day

* Long run should be 11-12 miles

* What workouts have you done?

* Take 1 day off a week

1. I should. It's usually 6 miles.

2. They are.

3. Mainly long thresholds and tempos this year. 4 miles at 6:15 pace, 10x1000m at 6:15-6:21. I'm doing mile repeats tonight on the track to gauge my 5K fitness.

4. I usually do.

Thanks!

I'm almost the same as you. 37, 6'1", 165 pounds.

Best 5k was 16:53 but that was 20 years ago. I started training again (modestly) in 2012 for a marathon.

Right now my 5k should be around 19:00 (based on current 1 mile PR of 5:27 and HM pr of 88), but my goal is 16:52 or better.

I'm averaging 40 mpw this year, and I only have the time to get to maybe 50 mpw with any consistency (for now), due to family and work obligations.

You're currently doing 25 min threshold runs. I'd try to increase those over the next few months and get up to 6 miles.

erter wrote:

You're currently doing 25 min threshold runs. I'd try to increase those over the next few months and get up to 6 miles.

I ran a 10K in 39:22 a month ago to test my fitness. I would classify this as a little more painful than a "threshold" run as I was giving it all I had in the last mile. I heard tempo runs are are supposed to be a little slower than that...so I'm thinking this would be about a 6:45 pace for a 6 miler.

Slow Bro wrote:

I'm almost the same as you. 37, 6'1", 165 pounds.

Best 5k was 16:53 but that was 20 years ago. I started training again (modestly) in 2012 for a marathon.

Right now my 5k should be around 19:00 (based on current 1 mile PR of 5:27 and HM pr of 88), but my goal is 16:52 or better.

I'm averaging 40 mpw this year, and I only have the time to get to maybe 50 mpw with any consistency (for now), due to family and work obligations.

Hey! Keep us posted on your progress - but I'm thinking it will be more than 40-50 mpw to make it happen unless you are extremely talented. It all depends on your strengths I guess...

TheMovieChannel wrote:

easy weeks wrote:

I remember when I was running 17:30-ish for 5k - your 10k PR time looks like a split on route to a half marathon. Curious as to why it is so slow.

I'm AWFUL at longer races. Truly AWFUL. I have trouble with my pacing and not sure what my speed should be for a 10K. My best 8K at my peak was at 5:58 pace...not great.

In half marathons, I get beat frequently by guys + girls with much slower 5K times. I never really work on my long game, but I greatly excel at workouts like 12x200 in 32 seconds with 200m recovery.

Well, here's my advice: I think it would be best to work on this weakness, as it is fairly significant and therefore the most untapped part of your overall fitness. It is common to stick to the workouts you like best (12x200), because you are good at them, and so it makes you feel good about your training. But there is less of a margin for improvement by sticking to that.

You need to improve your stamina; the fastest possible pace you can run aerobically, which in turn will lead to a corresponding increased 5k speed. If you get better at 10k-HM, you'll probably find that you will be able to hold your 5k pace for longer before you start getting into trouble.

Start doing hard one-hour progression runs. Do two 10-13 milers a week, not one. Run them at an honest pace. Once a week, do 5x1km in 3:20 w/2 min recovery and try to work it down to 90 seconds, then 60. Then you will be ready.

That sounds like a good plan. So let’s sketch this out based on the advice here:

Monday: 8 mile easy

Tuesday: 5x1000m at 5K pace with recovery cut downs + 3 mile of warm up/cool down.

Wednesday: 8 mile easy

Thursday: 10 mile tempo or 6 mile threshold

Friday: 8 mile easy

Saturday: off

Sunday: 13m easy

Total: 53.

Is that really enough mileage?

I’d also like to add that I have a 800m patch of dirt road that goes uphill. This would be perfect for a 8x800 workout at 5K pace with long down hill jog recoveries.

10 mile tempo? Are you able to recover from that?

TheMovieChannel wrote:

For the past eight weeks I’ve averaged 45 mpw. Current threshold pace for 4 miles is 6:15, while long runs of 10-13 miles have been 7:10-7:30 pace.

I have a 5K scheduled next weekend that I’m hoping to crack 19 minutes...

If this is even remotely accurate, you are training way too fast. I don't think 4 mile threshold runs are designed to be 10 seconds slower than your perceived current 5k fitness.

wicked games you play wrote:

TheMovieChannel wrote:

For the past eight weeks I’ve averaged 45 mpw. Current threshold pace for 4 miles is 6:15, while long runs of 10-13 miles have been 7:10-7:30 pace.

I have a 5K scheduled next weekend that I’m hoping to crack 19 minutes...

If this is even remotely accurate, you are training way too fast. I don't think 4 mile threshold runs are designed to be 10 seconds slower than your perceived current 5k fitness.

I did one workout last month - 3 x 1 mile in 5:55, 6:04, 5:57 with 1 minute standing recovery. I think I'm there.

TheMovieChannel wrote:

I did one workout last month - 3 x 1 mile in 5:55, 6:04, 5:57 with 1 minute standing recovery. I think I'm there.

Think you are where? Ok, you gotta be a fvckin troll now.

wicked games you play wrote:

TheMovieChannel wrote:

For the past eight weeks I’ve averaged 45 mpw. Current threshold pace for 4 miles is 6:15, while long runs of 10-13 miles have been 7:10-7:30 pace.

I have a 5K scheduled next weekend that I’m hoping to crack 19 minutes...

If this is even remotely accurate, you are training way too fast. I don't think 4 mile threshold runs are designed to be 10 seconds slower than your perceived current 5k fitness.

I agree with the sentiment of the above response -- you're training too hard for your current fitness. Running low-7s for 10-13 miles does not jive with being a 18- or 19-minute 5km-er. Slow down on your easy runs first of all.

It also sounds like you're more of a fast-twitch athlete than a "standard" distance runner. I'm the same. Based on experience as both coach and athlete, as well as what I've read and learned, I think you can accomplish sub-17 on consistent 45-55mpw if you're smart. I'd be cautious with your long runs and total volume and keep your focus on a couple good workouts per week. Your timeframe for getting down to 16:XX would dictate just how aggressive those workouts are.

My suggestions:

Stick with just 1 long run per week 10-12 miles. Adding a 2nd is likely to reduce quality in your other runs. If it is getting too easy just add some aerobic progression to it towards the end or some legspeeds throughout.

Avoid intervals and -- as you mentioned -- focus on threshold or tempo or whatever you want to call it: sustained running at paces that keep you aerobic. Mangess calls the paces direct & indirect aerobic support. For you, right now, that is basically anything from 6:20ish to 7:20ish. Over time transition from more aerobic work to more traditional threshold work like your 4-6 miles steady at a low-6 pace.

As you get closer to race day for sub-17 certainly add some intervals in but again focus on your weaknesses and keep the intervals a bit longer and/or active recovery. Do a bit of speedier stuff just to sharpen.

I'm pretty much in a nearly identical situation as you and I'm also trying to break my lifetime (HS) PR of 17 flat 5km. I post my training weekly over in the "road racing and training thread"

Cheers

just do a 6 mile threshold on thursday. I don't think there is much difference between a tempo and threshold. Plus, doing a 10 mile tempo run that is 20% of your weekly volume might be a bit much.

annnnnd its gone wrote:

TheMovieChannel wrote:

I did one workout last month - 3 x 1 mile in 5:55, 6:04, 5:57 with 1 minute standing recovery. I think I'm there.

Think you are where? Ok, you gotta be a fvckin troll now.

If my goal is sub-19, yes I'm very close. I would send you a link to where I store my workouts, but I want some anonymity. Hope you understand.