Why do so many HS studs get slower?

Terrifed High School Senior wrote:

As a high school senior with high collegiate aspirations, I'm struck by how badly certain elite high schoolers do in college. Guys like Elias Gedyon, Jantzen Oshier, Estevan De La Rosa, etc., run FAR slower than they did in high school--far slower than they did in 9th grade. I don't understand how such things happen. How can good runners get so comparatively bad? I'm concerned it'll happen to me too (although on a much smaller scale).

all of those names you listed were known dumba$$es

true. but that wouldnt be the answer to them getting slower. I find this weird also. guys like AJ Yarnell who won state his senior year is now something like 3rd to last at NCAA's...I know its hard to transition to college but it shouldnt be that bad for someone who won state his senior year. Or guys like Mousssa who got off to a rough start in college but is now back to his old high school. I think you may have to look past their first one or two years. Its hard to transition to college life, college training, and college expectations. You dont run the way they thought you would, youre out! and that pressure gets to some people

for the record, jantzen and estevan didnt come into high school running nearly as fast as elias did. estevan wasnt even really elite until his junior year. same with jantzen. jantzen didnt even run his freshman year and then ran xc his sophomore year but no track his sophomore year. his times werent fast until his junior year

I mean, I can understand guys like Moussa not running too much faster than they did in high school for a while, or even ever--some people train HARD in high school--but I can't understand how people so talented can get minutes slower for the 5k when they still are working. It freaks me out.

Terrifed High School Senior wrote:

I mean, I can understand guys like Moussa not running too much faster than they did in high school for a while, or even ever--some people train HARD in high school--but I can't understand how people so talented can get minutes slower for the 5k when they still are working. It freaks me out.

I think you may be over exaggerating...

I'm not exaggerating. Look up some recent results from the people I've mentioned. DLR ran like a 35 for the 10k this week, less than 6 months after he was a sub-9 3200 runner.

Terrifed High School Senior wrote:

I'm not exaggerating. Look up some recent results from the people I've mentioned. DLR ran like a 35 for the 10k this week, less than 6 months after he was a sub-9 3200 runner.

why are you even looking at guys that aren't in school. you're not expecting to be in that position are you. come on.

It could be so many things:

1) overtraining in high school or now

2) not increasing the workload from high school or increased to much

3) injury

4) bad training or coaching

5) partying to much

6) and my favorite was just talented and "oh wait I have to put in the work to get better?"

Etc

Listen...

Talented high school runners coming right out of high school might run poor that first season. It's a difficult transition. I know many guys who struggled at first. I was a fairly talented high school runner (4:12ish) who ran 33-35ish for 10K at end of 1st year college XC. The issue was the increase in mileage, hard runs, doubles, tempos, and longer distances. But these were just rough races that I had...things got better.

You have to understand, it's a journey...it's about progression. You have 4 to 5 years of development with consistent mileage...you can't judge a talented high school kid his first year in college. It's just not a good comparison of what will come. Post-collegiately, I was racing an open 2 mile and beat an extremely talented 1st year red-shirt college kid (I wasn't that good anymore). 3 years later, I saw him on flo-track and he was now an NCAA qualifier running sub 14.

Now, on the other hand. you do see many talented high school recruits fall apart and have unsuccessful careers. That's a shame and it shouldn't happen. It's either from injury or from terrible high school training that ruined them. I personally was one of those...having terrible injuries that ruined 3 years of college, running no more faster than I did in high school. Looking back though, the injuries should have been prevented if I had been smarter...or had a trainer that cared. And for the high school kids that were ruined by high school coaches...I've seen it too...these are the guys who were running 4x400 @60, 3 times a week, sophomore year to senior year in the winter, spring, and summer. It happens...and it shouldn't.

Booze.

LDOPA wrote:

Booze.

And p u s s y

HS coaching > college coaching

I'm not kidding.

After you get into Stanford or Princeton, you stop taking EPO and Centro Sauce.

It's possible that these kids excelled in HS by just dumb luck. The right coach training the right kid in the right way at the right time under the right circumstances. One example of a runner who reached the top under his HS coach was de Castella. Very hard to prove or disprove, but would make a fascinating study.

im an azzhole wrote:

LDOPA wrote:

Booze.

And p u s s y

I guess that's why you got so fast oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

There's a lot going on developmentally speaking around that age. People don't develop at the same rate and going from living with parents to living at college is a BIG CHANGE.

So there are as many different reasons as there are runners, but one factor I think we see a lot is the transition from being micro-managed to asking the runners to manage their own lives.

For most runners, this is going from having their parents prepare their meals, make their choices, protect them from dumb kid stuff. It's GREAT to have the freedom to make one's own choices, but face it: the choices that lead to running success are a LOT less fun in the short term than the choices most college first year students make.

Look at Coach Joe Newton from Elmhust, IL. He's trained TONS of successful HS runners. Mostly by telling everyone what to do and enforcing the rules. When these kids go places where coaches treat them like adults, they tend to not do as well. This isn't a criticism of the kids or the coach, just pointing out that what works for children doesn't work for adults.

Also, like others have pointed out, top level NCAA training involves soaking in a lot of high mileage aerobic training that my take a year or two to 'soak in' as it were. Coaches (well, GOOD coaches) don't train 1st year students for first year success. They train them for 4 year success which means sacrificing short term success for long-term payouts.

Because not everyone can survive the madness and abuse of college training.

Calling another man a stud is dodgy, but there is something wrong with a grown man describing a boy as a stud

Doclove wrote:

Calling another man a stud is dodgy, but there is something wrong with a grown man describing a boy as a stud

Disagree here...I think people know what "stud" in this context means, and I think those of us who are secure in our own heterosexuality and adulthood are not bothered when another adult uses the term in that way.