Session was done on the 2:30, so on average 1:20 recovery.
Times 77-74-73-73-72-70-68-66-67-59, average 70, last 5 average 66.
Background - youth runner, PRs 2.02 and 53. Doing only 20mpw of which 10-12 are high quality, with sprint training too. Doesn't normally run 1500/mile races competitively.
The good news is that you don't have to worry about him going out to fast!
He shows huge potential, but I'm guessing that he's not ready to do much more than 4:40 for a mile with his current training.
serious answer wrote:
The good news is that you don't have to worry about him going out to fast!
He shows huge potential, but I'm guessing that he's not ready to do much more than 4:40 for a mile with his current training.
I think he's good for sub 4:40 ... he finished the workout with great speed. For me, this workout is quite hard by the end and the pace is usually mile pace if run evenly. I would assume if you are going to do it where you pace progresses faster and faster the avg time would be slower than if you ran them evenly. So, I think he can run 68/400 for the mile. But he's clearly much better at the 800.
Yeah I was thinking 4.35-4.40. I told him to start solid and build. It was more of a vVo2max session to be run at 2km speed.
I've seen too many people wreck a session by going too hard on the first rep and not being able to finish it properly. I'd rather they go the other way. It was supposed to be 70-72s, I didn't expect him to do the 2nd half that fast.
OK - on that last session the 400s might have been a touch short. it was done in a park.
Session done last Sunday - this time measured by google maps. Done in joggers on a trail, but a trail with a pretty good surface. I don't like him doing longer sessions like this in spikes on a track. Doing them in joggers in a park takes less of a toll on the body. The track can be kept for 800 speed training and sprint work esp at that age - lower volume and faster.
Session was 8 x 400 on 70" recovery. Was running 382m - and considering this is joggers on a trail, I think roughly equates to 400s on a track in spikes. 382m makes it about 3 seconds short of a 400, but you'd take almost that off for the shoes and surface.
He went 70-67-65-67-67-68-67-69, form kept solid. He's in about 2.00-2.01 800 shape and 52 400 shape, though hasn't done much longer work lately. He's running a 1500 this Sat - I am hoping he can go sub 4.20. Trick will be not to go out too hard, maybe 66-71-71 through 1200 and kick it home.
Chances? Sounds doable in theory, we'll see.
4:30-35 / 1500
The Tourist wrote:
OK - on that last session the 400s might have been a touch short. it was done in a park.
Session done last Sunday - this time measured by google maps. Done in joggers on a trail, but a trail with a pretty good surface. I don't like him doing longer sessions like this in spikes on a track. Doing them in joggers in a park takes less of a toll on the body. The track can be kept for 800 speed training and sprint work esp at that age - lower volume and faster.
Session was 8 x 400 on 70" recovery. Was running 382m - and considering this is joggers on a trail, I think roughly equates to 400s on a track in spikes. 382m makes it about 3 seconds short of a 400, but you'd take almost that off for the shoes and surface.
He went 70-67-65-67-67-68-67-69, form kept solid. He's in about 2.00-2.01 800 shape and 52 400 shape, though hasn't done much longer work lately. He's running a 1500 this Sat - I am hoping he can go sub 4.20. Trick will be not to go out too hard, maybe 66-71-71 through 1200 and kick it home.
Chances? Sounds doable in theory, we'll see.
I think you have the splits way wrong. I think if you're aiming for 4:20 you should look at splitting (68, 70, 72, 50). Basically most runners, and especially youth runners are going to get out quick through 400 and spend the next two laps slowing down steadily. I'm assuming your athlete can kick well and close 300 in 50. Whatever you do, don't let him run 66 on the first 400 b/c if he does he'll run 4:30
crete wrote:
The Tourist wrote:OK - on that last session the 400s might have been a touch short. it was done in a park.
Session done last Sunday - this time measured by google maps. Done in joggers on a trail, but a trail with a pretty good surface. I don't like him doing longer sessions like this in spikes on a track. Doing them in joggers in a park takes less of a toll on the body. The track can be kept for 800 speed training and sprint work esp at that age - lower volume and faster.
Session was 8 x 400 on 70" recovery. Was running 382m - and considering this is joggers on a trail, I think roughly equates to 400s on a track in spikes. 382m makes it about 3 seconds short of a 400, but you'd take almost that off for the shoes and surface.
He went 70-67-65-67-67-68-67-69, form kept solid. He's in about 2.00-2.01 800 shape and 52 400 shape, though hasn't done much longer work lately. He's running a 1500 this Sat - I am hoping he can go sub 4.20. Trick will be not to go out too hard, maybe 66-71-71 through 1200 and kick it home.
Chances? Sounds doable in theory, we'll see.
I think you have the splits way wrong. I think if you're aiming for 4:20 you should look at splitting (68, 70, 72, 50). Basically most runners, and especially youth runners are going to get out quick through 400 and spend the next two laps slowing down steadily. I'm assuming your athlete can kick well and close 300 in 50. Whatever you do, don't let him run 66 on the first 400 b/c if he does he'll run 4:30
That's a fair point. Holding back on the first lap is important. He can run a very comfortable 62 1st lap in an 800, so I thought 66 was about right. But he's a runner who has PR'ed over 800 before on negative splits. And if he has anything in the tank at all, he has the speed to close in 50 or faster.
Of course you're dead right that a lot of youth runners go out too hard. This athlete will thrive when the races are more conservative early. He's an 11.80 FAT runner already (and 23.70 for 200), and could get sub-11 when fully developed. Some serious wheels for a middle distance runner.
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