Your thoughts on Alcoholics Anonymous?

I agree. The intelligence thing would really put smart people off attending. The annoying thing would be trying to deal with that when all social and political forces assume intelligent beings are just like them - losers (witch they know about anyway).

Conundruming no answers as usual.

llort_vbo wrote:

You sound a bit self righteous. Don't know if you're aware of that.

1) why did you waste your time typing that long-winded speech, and then tipping me off that I shouldn't read it? That's pretty stupid.

2) self-righteousness is entirely appropriate when debunking entrenched, dogmatic lies.

3) what I sound like depends on who is listening. Why should I be aware of what things sound like to you? Maybe you assume everyone hears things the same as you, in which case, who are you to call anyone self-righteous?

4) Of course, you're really just being snarky and prissy, aren't you? You know what I wrote before is entirely true, but somehow you're butt-hurt about it, which amuses me.

llort_vbo wrote:

AA is ok as a support mechanism, but if you are intelligent, it can be hard to sit in a meeting and listen to people who are barely able to read or string a few thoughts together.

Realize that some people sound so unintelligent BECAUSE of years of alcohol abuse.

My father is one such person. He used to seem like a reasonably intelligent person - college graduate, professional job, all that. After decades of alcohol abuse, he can no longer tell the difference between his house keys and a bottle of lip balm. Literally, I've watched him stare at the two, not sure which is which. Today, he couldn't hold down a job if his life depended on it. Years of alcohol abuse has just rotten his brain. I've had to "loan" him money more than once - money I know he'll never pay back. He can't even remember that I gave him the money - he can't even remember what day of the week it is. Some days, I'm not sure he even remembers who I am.

My father is so mired in depression that he doesn't want to be free from alcoholism, because then he'd have to deal with his severe mental and emotional issues. It's easier for him to just stay drunk than to deal with all that.

He is the type that AA would not help because he doesn't want to be helped. As miserable as alcoholism makes him, he doesn't want to do what would be needed to be free of it. That's the first step to any recovery plan - you have to want to recover. No program, AA or otherwise, is going to help you if you don't want to be helped.

That was the hard part for me to deal with - the reality that I can't help my dad if he doesn't want to be helped. It's tough watching him literally drink himself into an early grave, but that's the choice he's made. I finally had to decide not to let him ruin my life along with his.

It's a cult.

Works well for me. I did the recommended 90 meetings in 90 days after rehab. And continue to go although not very regularly now. Also, having an AA sponsor helped me a lot. I'll be three years sober next week. I went twenty years knowing full well that I'm an alcoholic. At the end was going through enough booze to kill me but, thanks to a miracle, it didn't.

I have been to AA meetings that I haven't enjoyed--the people were preachy, or there were practices that I didn't think helpful. So I've found different meetings. It's not for everyone but if you really want to stop drinking, going to a meeting where you can listen to what worked for a group of people who've already done what you're hoping to do can't really do much harm. Just remember that your way to sobriety won't necessarily look exactly like theirs.

somebody home wrote:

I'm truly surprised by the plethora of alcoholics who visit this site. I shouldn't be, but alas, I am.

You're right, you shouldn't be surprised. Alcoholism is an epidemic in our society and no one wants to talk about it.

I say this as the adult son of an alcoholic who is still dealing with the mental and emotional impact of growing up with an alcoholic parent.

You sound intelligent, open minded and well informed, so I appreciate your view point.

That said, I think in big cities there is a wide spectrum of meetings. In LA for example one meeting seemed attended mostly by CEOs of successful businesses. That was a smart and articulate group.

Second, I too am an elitist and have little time for the random thoughts of the man on the street. However, I think this is part of the higher power approach. If our smarts can't help us get sober, then maybe there is something to submitting to a process (warts and all) on its terms, not ours.

In any event, AA is not perfect, and not very successful, but like democracy, it is the best of a lot of poor choices.

did it my way wrote:

llort_vbo wrote:

You sound a bit self righteous. Don't know if you're aware of that.

1) why did you waste your time typing that long-winded speech, and then tipping me off that I shouldn't read it? That's pretty stupid.

2) self-righteousness is entirely appropriate when debunking entrenched, dogmatic lies.

3) what I sound like depends on who is listening. Why should I be aware of what things sound like to you? Maybe you assume everyone hears things the same as you, in which case, who are you to call anyone self-righteous?

4) Of course, you're really just being snarky and prissy, aren't you? You know what I wrote before is entirely true, but somehow you're butt-hurt about it, which amuses me.

That's cool with me if that's what you believe, but it would put me off from trying to have an intelligent discussion with you. That nonsense you were babbling is simplistic drivel and makes me believe you're not that bright.

asdfsad wrote:

In any event, AA is not perfect, and not very successful, but like democracy, it is the best of a lot of poor choices.

Unfortunately, I never found a meeting like the one you describe. I think I might still be going if I had. NYC is a bit far for me to go to meetings and at some point there just aren't enough hours in the day - between working 12 hours, running, and everything else I just realized it wasn't that important to me. For the most part, I'm obsessed with work and I don't think that I would let anything interfere with that or providing for my family. That might be one thing going for me - but it would probably be bad if I wasn't occupied.

When I was first going, I heard people say "Fake it until you make it" and after some point, I just realized that it wasn't enough for me. I think giving it 10 years to take is long enough. Certainly, I worked the steps and studied the literature, but it never felt truly authentic. If you were to say that's somehow my fault, I couldn't argue. In fact, I wouldn't. But the proof's in the pudding and while my life is not perfect, it is pretty damn good.

I agree that AA works a lot better than willpower or religious intervention for most people. I'm genuinely glad when I hear people tell me that it works for them.

OINK wrote:

Realize that some people sound so unintelligent BECAUSE of years of alcohol abuse.

My father is one such person.

That's absolutely horrifying to hear and I've seen that myself. I think you're making a fair point and I would hope that if I was ever in that position that I would be treated with compassion.

One of the faculty members in my PhD program was an absolute blithering idiot at the end. He soiled himself at work, told racist jokes in the hallway, and was frequently disoriented and confused during class. The school eventually bought him out and he was dead within a year or two. His drinking buddy at work died almost at the same time of a heart attack.

Clearly you did not try AA long enough to learn the concept of the "dry drunk."

What I am saying is that you are a azzhole drunk or sober...which your attitude here just proves.