Cruz 1:41?

Yes.

it bugs me when people say coe's 800 was 16 years ahead of it's time. cruz ran as fast and beat him three years later.

cruz fan wrote:

it bugs me when people say coe's 800 was 16 years ahead of it's time. cruz ran as fast and beat him three years later.

Yes, i have the race too. If i remember correctly a German took him to almost 600m and he had Robinson close behind at that point.

So he had a bit more help than Coe.

Coe was ahead of his time because he ran 1:41 first. He was also the first under 1:43. He was 1.7 Secs faster than anyone ever at that point until Cruz came along in 84. Coe in 84 was not the same as he had been in 81. Apart from being 3 years older, he had done amazing to even get to the games after a serious illness.

Cruz too was ahead of his time, as no one approached what he did for 13 years.

Coe easily beat Cruz in 81 at the world cup when Cruz hadn't yet reached his full ability, and Cruz beat Coe in 84 when at his peak and when Coe was past his.

come on deano

cruz had the capacity to take control in an Olympic 800 m series, give him some credit. coe couldn't

someone ran as fast as coe around the same era. and coe's 1.41 timing was dodgy or so i heard cruz's coach say (straight from the horse's mouth)

I agree with you.

Coe wasn’t the 800mt runner he was cracked up to be.

Take away his contentious 1.41 in Florence where the official timekeeping system broke down on the night - and one finds the average of his next 5 fastest 800mt times are only fractionally better than the average of Steve Cram’s 5 fastest times - 1.43.24 as compared to 1.43.26 - and Cram would be the last to claim the 800 was one of his best events.

Take away Cruz’s legitimate 1.41 - and his next 5 fastest times were still easily better than Coe - 1.42.58 as compared to Coe’s 1.43.24.

With regards to the legitimacy of Coe's 1:41, there is video widely available for analysis.

The fact that Cruz and others came close to Coe in the ensuing decade does not detract from what he accomplished. From '79 to '81 he took the record from 1:43 to 1:42 and then 1:41 at a time when no one else was close.

I just find it odd that only videos of Cruz out there (for the 800) are his Olympic win and his loss to cram. None of his 142s and no sign of the 141

Cruz 1:41?

Sure I can.

For a 600, anyway.

Walt George. wrote:

I agree with you.

Coe wasn’t the 800mt runner he was cracked up to be.

Take away his contentious 1.41 in Florence where the official timekeeping system broke down on the night - and one finds the average of his next 5 fastest 800mt times are only fractionally better than the average of Steve Cram’s 5 fastest times - 1.43.24 as compared to 1.43.26 - and Cram would be the last to claim the 800 was one of his best events.

Take away Cruz’s legitimate 1.41 - and his next 5 fastest times were still easily better than Coe - 1.42.58 as compared to Coe’s 1.43.24.

Lol. Coe won more medals in Championships and IAAF events over 800m than Cruz & Cram. He had more world ranking points than both of them and was running 1:43's as far apart as 11 seasons (78 - 89). Cruz only broke 1:44 in 84, 85 and 88.

He also broke 2 world records and was further ahead of his peers than anyone has been since WW2 when he ran 1:41.7.

Of course Cruz'z average top 5 time is faster than Coe. He spent all of 84 and 85 running just 800m trying to break Coe's record! And failing.

Coe's 1:41 was at the very beginning of the season and not one of the top meets in August when athletes peak. What was the point of Coe chasing his own time when he was already so far ahead of anyone else. Instead he ran the Mile and 1500.

In the six Championship races Coe ran in at 800, 2 Olympic and 4 European- he only won the gold once.

Hardly the record of an 800mt runner in a different class to any of the others in his era.

Coe was a great time-trialer over 800 metres, but had difficulty actually winning championships 800's like the Olympics. To be the WR and have 0 Gold is an issue, especially when guys like Ovett took it to him in "his" distance.

When comparing Cruz to Coe, don't forget that Cruz only ran 800s, but Coe ran miles and 1500s, so you can't compare depth.

Excellent point. One should not attempt to compare Coe to Cruz. For one thing, Coe had Cram, Ovett and several others to push him at nearly every race. Coe was a slightly built natural miler, whearas Cruz was a much larger

athlete perfect for a 800 meter race.

For the record, I was there (at Hayward Field) when Cruz ran his PR 1:41. My recollection is that his intent that particular day was not to break Coe's record, yet he was so fit and healthy that he nearly did so, even while slowing 15 meters from the finish line. Shortly after that race, he began to deal with some minor physical issues that restricted his workouts somewhat. His later races were more strategic, with few opportunities to go again for the record.

Coe, Cruz, Ovett, Cram, Scott....all of them were champions and fabulous athletes in their own rights.

Walt George. wrote:

In the six Championship races Coe ran in at 800, 2 Olympic and 4 European- he only won the gold once.

Hardly the record of an 800mt runner in a different class to any of the others in his era.

Get your facts right. Coe contested 2 Olympic 800s and 3 (NOT 4) European 800s.

The only one of these he should definitely have won was the Moscow final, where he ran a dreadful tactical race. He wasn't the favourite to win in Prague 78 and it was his first senior Championship. It came as no surprise that Ovett beat him then, as he had already won a silver in the event 4 years earlier and had competed in an Olympics. What wasn't expected was Beyer running 1:43.86, although subsequent documentation found would suggest he was on a state sponsored doping regimen. At the time Coe had missed several weeks training in mid summer and he was applauded at the time for at least going out and having a go on the first lap.

In 82 Coe ran a perfect race but was ill. He'd already beaten Ferner twice on the circuit. He was unlucky.

In 84 Coe was good enough to beat everyone, despite a serious illness the previous summer that stopped him from running until January 84. No one expected Cruz to emerge as a 1:41 athlete that year. Cruz in his 84 form would have been good enough to have beaten any athlete in any Championship final since.

Then Coe won in 86, beating Cram and getting the No. 1 ranking for the year.

People conveniently forget the European indoor gold in 77, just 0.1 off the world record, 2 emphatic European Cup golds (at a time when they were a season highlight in August rather than the season warm up they went on to become) and a World Cup gold in 81, which was to all intents and purposes a World Championship precursor before they were inaugurated in 83.

So that's 5 golds, 3 silvers and one bronze over 10 years. He never failed to come away without a medal in all 9 races he contested, bar his last race at the Commonwealth in 90 when suffering with a chest infection.

People go on about Coe having a poor record in 800 champs, but it's better than Ovett's record at 1500, and no one gives him the same criticism. Indeed, he's revered as a great tactician and competitor.

In his first 1500 Championship (76 Olympics), he fails to reach the final. In his best year at the Olympics he gets the bronze.

His career record: - 3 golds (77 World Cup, 78 European, 81 World Cup),

1 bronze (Olympic 80) a 4th (83 World Champs) and a dq in 84.

Likewise, Cruz came 6th in the 81 World Cup (when a 1:44.3 performer, the same as Coe was in 78), and third in the 83 World Champs when running a similar first lap to Coe's in Prague. So he failed twice before winning Olympic gold. He never won another gold medal at any distance.

So Cruz won 1 gold, 1 silver and one bronze, with a 6th.

Coe's record in races that were important during his era was as good as anyone else's over 800m. Coe didn't have the opportunity to contest World Champs every 2 years during his career, unlike Kipketer. But if you compare the 2 over 800m in just Olympics and European Champs, then Coe's record is superior.

Kip won Olympic silver & bronze, and in the Europeans he won gold and came 8th in the other.

If you're going to be critical of Coe's 800 performances on the European and Olympic stage, then Ovett, Cruz and Kipketer deserve equal criticism for their inferior performances and fewer medals over their best distances.

Saw Cruz' 1:41 wrote:

Excellent point. One should not attempt to compare Coe to Cruz. For one thing, Coe had Cram, Ovett and several others to push him at nearly every race. Coe was a slightly built natural miler, whearas Cruz was a much larger

athlete perfect for a 800 meter race.

For the record, I was there (at Hayward Field) when Cruz ran his PR 1:41. My recollection is that his intent that particular day was not to break Coe's record, yet he was so fit and healthy that he nearly did so, even while slowing 15 meters from the finish line. Shortly after that race, he began to deal with some minor physical issues that restricted his workouts somewhat. His later races were more strategic, with few opportunities to go again for the record.

Coe, Cruz, Ovett, Cram, Scott....all of them were champions and fabulous athletes in their own rights.

You're either a flat out liar or you've mistaken what you saw. Cruz's 1:41.77 was run in Cologne, Germany in 84 (not Hayward Field). And he most certainly did not ease up in the last 15m. And yes, it was a concerted effort to break Coe's record.

You may very well have seen Cruz win in that fashion, but it certainly wasn't his 1:41.

I have a copy of the race, albeit not a very good quality one. I will try and download it on Youtube when I get a spare moment.

Saw Cruz' 1:41 wrote:

For the record, I was there (at Hayward Field) when Cruz ran his PR 1:41. My recollection is that his intent that particular day was not to break Coe's record, yet he was so fit and healthy that he nearly did so, even while slowing 15 meters from the finish line. Shortly after that race, he began to deal with some minor physical issues that restricted his workouts somewhat. His later races were more strategic, with few opportunities to go again for the record.

Coe, Cruz, Ovett, Cram, Scott....all of them were champions and fabulous athletes in their own rights.

1:41 at Hayward Field! was it wind assisted?

Please excuse my senility. You are so correct, in that Cruz' record time was run at a meet near Cologne. Yes, I watched Cruz ease up just short of a record, and memory is now telling me that it was perhaps an NCAA record time that just missed. Point is, he was once of the greatest...reminded me a lot of Alberto Juantorena. Was he greater than Coe? I'd say it was apples to oranges, as Cruz' to mile was something like 3:35.

cruz fan wrote:

come on deano

cruz had the capacity to take control in an Olympic 800 m series, give him some credit. coe couldn't

someone ran as fast as coe around the same era. and coe's 1.41 timing was dodgy or so i heard cruz's coach say (straight from the horse's mouth)

I'm not deano.

There was nothing dodgy about Coe's Florence run as it was ratified by the IAAF, and any one can watch it on Youtube and get a hand timed 1:41.5, which is what they got on the night. Not Coe's fault there was a problem with the official timing equipment. And he ran wide on the penultimate bend, so he actually ran about 802m in 1:41.73, which is further and faster than Cruz managed, despite at least 4 attempts in his career.

Cruz ran kamikaze style races often coming through the split in .46 or .47. Just absolutely brutal.