If 16-18 miles at MP is impossible for you, how do you expect to run 26 at MP?
If 16-18 miles at MP is impossible for you, how do you expect to run 26 at MP?
PSAT wrote:
If 16-18 miles at MP is impossible for you, how do you expect to run 26 at MP?
tailwind.
not to be a troll but do you think you can run about 2/3 of a distance of the race at race pace for a workout?
I'm no expert, but I'll use the 10k as an example.
don't tell me that you can run 4 miles of your 10k race pace straight in a single workout. you'de be lucky to finish a 6x 2 miles at race pace with 2 min recovery.
now given the same ratio to the marathon (which is evenharder I believe) just seems impossible.
just my 2 cent.
ask him yourself in Colorado! I am! http://www.distancesummit.com
hate to break it to you but, not everyone lives in Colorado. and not everyone can afford to buy a plane ticket and go. If I have the money and time, I would do it.
S.A.T wrote:
not to be a troll but do you think you can run about 2/3 of a distance of the race at race pace for a workout?
I'm no expert, but I'll use the 10k as an example.
don't tell me that you can run 4 miles of your 10k race pace straight in a single workout. you'de be lucky to finish a 6x 2 miles at race pace with 2 min recovery.
of course. as mentioned, if that's impossible, how can you expect to run a FULL race at that pace?
of course wrote:
S.A.T wrote:not to be a troll but do you think you can run about 2/3 of a distance of the race at race pace for a workout?
I'm no expert, but I'll use the 10k as an example.
don't tell me that you can run 4 miles of your 10k race pace straight in a single workout. you'de be lucky to finish a 6x 2 miles at race pace with 2 min recovery.
of course. as mentioned, if that's impossible, how can you expect to run a FULL race at that pace?
You're missing the point. No-one doubts that someone who expects to run a marathon should (at least close to race date) be able to run 16-18 miles at race pace. The point is: IS IT A VALUABLE / WORTHWHILE / ADVISABLE TRAINING SESSION.
I would say no. We never run further than 16k at race pace at any one time.
Red Cup wrote:
You're missing the point. No-one doubts that someone who expects to run a marathon should (at least close to race date) be able to run 16-18 miles at race pace. The point is: IS IT A VALUABLE / WORTHWHILE / ADVISABLE TRAINING SESSION.
I would say no. We never run further than 16k at race pace at any one time.
No, mate, you're not reading closely enough.
Give it another go and then try a relevant response.
I'll try again, and hate being rude...but is there a SIMPLE, not 100 page, breakdown of Canova's philosophies as opposed to someone like Lydiard or Daniels, specifically on improving threshold, etc.?
Tike wrote:
Surf the web or letsrun for duncan kibet james kwambai and marathon training or something here renato explains his views and why these marathon runners "ran amazing 2 hour 4 minute marathons out of the blue" They where trained by a then 27 year old clauddio berardelli.
Very intresting
It is a bit different from the jack daniels approach i have been reading about lately in terms of general endurance building. He splits it up more like say for a 16 low runner jack daniels will prescribe 4.15 minutes per kilometer or slightly below 7 minutes per mile for easy and long runs.
Renato says that you either regenerate or have to run fast enough to support the workouts. SO regeneration is slow in this case at 8 minutes per mile or slower maybe a tad faster.
But endurance so you can go faster on workouts and thus faster on races is faster then daniels for 5000 it goes like say 16.15 5000 runner 100 meter speed is 19.5s per 100
so he needs to run at 19.5 x 1.25 to 1.15 or 3.44 to 4.04 per kilometer on his endurance runs. This will help make 1000's at the track at 3.15 per kilometer feel easy and make 3.15 per kilometer on races feel easy so you become relaxed at that pace and will probably race even faster.
I am NOT trying to be rude...but I wish I understood what you were saying.
S.A.T.
During the specific phase of an athlete (the phase preceeding the race) I also recommend a simulation run of 60% of race distance at goal race pace. While this is certainly a tough workout if it is not doable than I've found the athlete has little possibility of completing the whole race distance at goal pace on race day.
And extra easy/recovery day may be needed after workout, but it should not be a race effort.
Here are the simulation distances I recommend for my runners:
5k Race = 3k simulation
10k Rcae = 6k simulation
Half Marathon = 12.5k simulation
Marathon = 25k simulation
In general I like to do the simulation run 2-3 weeks before the goal race for a 5k or 10 race, 3-4 weeks out for a half marathon and 4-5 weeks out for a marathon.
MPR
Canova recommends the following for his "aerobic endurance" sessions during the "specific" phase (follows, "general" and "special" phases).
Aerobic Endurance Workouts:
1) 18-22 miles steady run @ 90-95% of MP
2) 24-26 miles easy run @ 80-85% of MP
3) 18-22 miles progression run @ 85-100% of MP
4) 12-15 miles simulation run @ 100% of MP
5) 20 miles - last 5-10 miles @ 100% of MP
6) 20 miles incorporating 10 x 800 @ 103% of MP w 800 jog
7) 6-7 miles @ 85% + 6-7 miles @ 100% of MP (workout done AM and PM)
You'll see that he suggests a *maximum* distance of 15M @ MP.
Which is a little under 60% (i.e. 57%). So the previous poster has a similar % for their efforts. However I wouldn't call them "simulations", rather they are time-trials. A simulation generally refers to the full distance being completed with parts run at GP/RP and others as floats or recoveries of some sort. Just terminology I know, but I think there is a worthwhile distinction here.
I still don't get it.
It was posted on google docs here:
The document is dated "26 Sept. 2011".
Some initial feedback can be found here:
Would love to have a copy of your interesting article! Thanks in advance
I would love a copy of your article please: demonsamurai@gmail.com
Hey North Star i would be grateful if you could send me a copy of your Canova Article as I'm training for a marathon.
Keep up the good work.
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